Do you sometimes feel that AS is a made up disorder?

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right on!!

i dont so much doubt the Dx'ing parameters as i doubt my own conclusion that i am on the specter, i mean i think all diagnosis are made upon a theory and a bundle of things that do not seem to fit with in a bundle other then this bundle..

my problem is that first of all i doubt everything, sometimes i doubt whether what i see ect is true, even though i have never had dilutions so there is no reason for me to doubt "things"..

secondly i dont know if my own assessment of myself is right and if the way i see myself is how i actually am...

but from the random things i do remember i seem to fit the bill or atleast its beginning to look like it....

i remember having tantrums as a child and i remember destroying all my things (i never broke other peoples things), i came to school the first year wearing a full army uniform with boots and everything including a hat (i still have a thing for them), i was admitted to hospital and have been in and out of institutions between the ages of 9 to 14, but they could never give me a dx for some reason, and ive never had a "normal" life, when everybody else was starting to date i was just wondering around in my own world.. but the kicker is that i always assumed i was normal and that i just had to work harder to be like them...but some things i guess i never understood (like why people in movies would always do stupid things because of their emotions ect, you know like the bad guy getting arrested because he had to have one last kiss from his love before he left the country and so on), i still dont understand them...meh.. i guess i am out of luck...its not easy to get older, they expect so many things from you....

but in my country we have a very strong culture that goes a little like this: even if you are sick, your not suppose to complain or even talk about it.. so i stopped talking about it and whenever someone asks me, how are you? i always say i am ok even if i am not...

also my dr said i was hypochondriac, but i now realize that she mistook it for curiosity, i mean i am very curious of my own body as i feel its something seperate from me and so i dont understand it very well (and i know there is something wrong as ive never had a normal life as stated above), but its not often out of fear that i am curious as is with hypochondria,..

i think here people would rather see not see me and would feel better if i just kept my mouth shut and slept all day.. but if everybody did that they would be out of a job...so where is the logic in this?

Then what you wrote was incorrect so far as the DSM criteria are concerned. The first section with the DSM criteria require that there be impairments in non-verbal communication. If you do not have such impairments, the DSM excludes a dx of AS.


Actually some people with AS were diagnosed (before AS was being routinely diagnosed) with other conditions and received inappropriate and harmful interventions accordingly. Some struggled along certainly, but others came to the attention of health professionals and received treatment and diagnosis, but not for the condition they had - AS.

Using eye gestures/contact to regulate expression is not more or less emphasized in western culture than other cultures. The difference is the style of gesture in the West includes more eye-contact than many other cultures. Not everyone with AS who fails to use eye gestures/contact to regulate expression has an aversion to eye-contact, some simply stare fixedly for instance (which would be even more offensive in some cultures than in the West). Others just fail to employ eye gesture/contact to regulate expression, they neither avoid nor stare, but they also do not communicate meaningful information using their eyes.

As it happens there are many previously genetically isolated hunter/gatherer populations only encountered by non-hunter-gathers in the last few hundred years. We know that these populations do not demonstrate near universal levels of autism, or even raised levels relative to populations whose ancestors adopted agriculture a mere 10,000 years ago.

Further, whatever your reading may have led you to believe, hunter-gatherer cultures are as complex in their cultural norms for social inter-relatedness as non hunter-gatherer societies. Otherwise we would not encounter curious traditions such as 'insulting the meat' observed among the !Kung San (whereby everyone including the hunter rubbishes the meat caught, so the hunter who brought it in does not get 'big-headed') that basically consist of a social ritual of lies intended to regulate social interaction. It makes the 'how are you' ritual look sensible.

It's very easy to disprove the notion that AS represents some hunter-gatherer genotype that has been selected out by urbanization or even the advent of agriculture. All we need to do is locate genetically isolated hunter-gatherers whose genetic isolation pre-dates the neolithic and look for near universal autism among them or their recent descendants who can be demonstrated to have non-mixed lineage - if such populations do not demonstrate exceptionally high levels of autism, the theory is bunk.

So for instance if the notion of AS being some hunter-gatherer genotype were true, then the rate of autism occurrence among Aboriginal Australians (particularly the many without mixed parentage) would be somewhere near 100%, or at least substantially and obviously higher than the rate demonstrated by Australians of European ancestry, but it's not. The Mbuti of the Congo are another excellent example. They have been sufficiently genetically isolated such that reduced stature is pervasive amongst them (technically they are 'pygmies') and they have retained hunting and gathering into modernity. They also do not have exceptionally high rates of autism.

Last edited by pandd on 06 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Actually you need to take a second look at the Aussie aboriginals as you missed a whole lot on that one.
(edit) And you need to rethink you're impression of hunter-gathers considerably to come up to date with studies in that particular area with respect to AS characteristics that were survival based instincts in early man.

they have had several theories about ADHD having a function in HG society, but ASD would to my knowledge be a disadvantage...ASD would be more suited in Farming societies, with routines, eye for detail, ect...

recently we have shown that modern Europeans probably occupied Europe during the Neolithic rather then as hunter gatherers as was previous thought, so they probably came and brought with them farming from either the middle east or central/western Asia and to my knowledge ASD is very high in Europeans (although that could be due to the fact that Europeans mostly live in a hi tech world and so have a bigger chance of getting Dx'ed)...

It's not so much the traits that are associated with our modern concepts of developmental disorders but the differences in perception behind those traits that anthropologists are now starting to look at. It really has nothing to do with autism or aspergers but a basic difference in the perception of what we call reality and how we actually communicate.

Are you the same poster that was looking for a cure the other day?

DSM diagnosis criteria:



"Two of the following" (in four possible items) - then, impairment in non-verbal comunication is not a necessary condition for having AS

Looking for a cure? I know there is no cure at the moment. I wish it was made up so I can just leave everything behind and will myself to be normal. If it is real, there is nothing I can do unless there is a cure.

If you only look at the social aspect and the diagnostic criteria then it's understandable that
some people might think it's only a crutch.What struck me about AS and made it real was the
list of possible associated traits identified by Tony Attwood over 2 decades.Things like walking without swinging the arms,being unduly conscientious at work,the obsessive interests that go unshared,Synaesthesia,irrational anxiety,can't see the wood for the trees,take things too
personally or too literally.Having said all that,personally I don't see it as a serious 'disorder'
when compared to things like bipolar,it just helps me to identify where shortcomings can come to light and remind me I need to keep concentrating regards to social interaction.

It's almost amazing to see people who are somewhere on the spectrum try to be so specific in describing traits for specific levels of functionality when the criteria is vauge and probably will be rewriten this year anyway. Nobody knows for sure what any of these traits actually mean since each and every person is individually affected.

I sometimes wonder if it is real. But I had gone 43 years without a diagnosis for AS. As far as socializing goes, it's not just the uncomfortability with people. Sometimes, I find people annoying.Especially at stores. They talk about Aspies appearing rude, but I doubt everybody shopping in Wal-Mart is an Aspie.

Rude people are not autistic. Most of us have pretty good manners and are generally considerate even if we seem aloof, disinterested and detached. The NT's don't know what human interaction is all about but we're the ones who are supposed to be socially lacking.

the_enigma, I don't think you should be asking us whether it is real or not to give yourself a reason to not let it define your life.
If you don't want AS to define your life, simply don't let it! Be who you want to be.

Speaking of rude people and Wal-Mart: I went to Wal-Mart last night and I was crossing the parking lot and I stood on the side near a curb waiting for the traffic to clear so I could cross and me being considerate was causing everyone else to be confused. The drivers of the cars were stopping and looking at me weird and guesturing me across and I thought about how most people just presumptuously walk into the road, confident that everyone will stop for them. If I had behaved that way, there would be no issues but because I was (logically if you ask me) waiting for the cars to go first, everyone was very confused.

Weird.

I am the same way. I live in New Jersey and don't trust the drivers. I'll pace back and forth until all cars have passed.