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How strict is your conscience?

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slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 7:46 am

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That much for conscience making you a good person as most of society believes. That's laughable.


To you, maybe.

Now scurry out of here, cockroach. Back to your hole in the wall.



Sora
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28 Jan 2009, 7:56 am

slowmutant wrote:
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That much for conscience making you a good person as most of society believes. That's laughable.


To you, maybe.

Now scurry out of here, cockroach. Back to your hole in the wall.


You can be exceptionally charming hihi


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Acacia
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28 Jan 2009, 8:25 am

This is a good topic. I can identify with parts of the original post.

For me, I have always felt an inner barrier when it comes to certain actions, either of my own doing or that of someone else. I understand what you mean by seeing someone on television who is doing something that makes me cringe. I have some kind of little voice inside that is saying, "THAT'S WRONG!! !"

I do have an internal moral rule for most things. I'm not some kind of prude, but I generally know what I consider to be right and wrong, and I generally stick to it.


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b9
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28 Jan 2009, 8:53 am

i have scant conscience. i was tested for psychopathy but failed because i can love animals.

i do not ever feel "guilty" about anything. i both can not feel it, and also i do not know why i should feel it.

in an old freudian sense, "conscience" is in the realm of the superego. that is the realm that is governed by the attachment to parental and other superior controls that one adopts as their "justifying" values. but that never occurred with me.

also i have no "shame" (another hallmark of "conscience"). i have never felt ashamed at anything i ever did. i do not know why. maybe it is because i can not identify with anyone who i would feel ashamed in front of. it is too murky for me to inspect.

on the other end of the spectrum i have no "pride". pride is the opposite of shame and i experience nothing in that continuum.

so i do not have much conscience to speak of. i have no malice and i do understand justice in a simple way.
but "conscience" is not a driving factor in my actions.



slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 8:57 am

Well, at least you don't torture animals.



b9
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28 Jan 2009, 9:02 am

slowmutant wrote:
Well, at least you don't torture animals.

i do not torture anything.
humans are animals.



slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 9:04 am

b9 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Well, at least you don't torture animals.

i do not torture anything.
humans are animals.


What I mean to say is ... At least you're not dismembering people and hiding the remains in your freezer. You're not, are you?



NeantHumain
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28 Jan 2009, 9:09 am

slowmutant wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
You make all NTs sound like borderline psychopaths.


Some Aspies are borderline psychopaths.

I very much doubt this.


I don't.

What makes you think some aspies are borderline psychopaths?



b9
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28 Jan 2009, 9:22 am

slowmutant wrote:
b9 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Well, at least you don't torture animals.

i do not torture anything.
humans are animals.


What I mean to say is ... At least you're not dismembering people and hiding the remains in your freezer. You're not, are you?


i can not pick up on your humor sorry. is it humor? i hope it is.
if it is not humor then i say you have dropped the reins of your imagination and it is running wildly with you flapping about on it's back like a rodeo rider trying to hold on for dear life.

if it was humor then i say ...obviously the only ones that can dismember people here are the moderators.

i am overdue for a recharge so i will park in my replenishment zone for 8 hours. gnight



slowmutant
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28 Jan 2009, 9:26 am

That was my attempt at black humour, b9. I meant no offence. Interesting. The ways in which you and I think must be very different.



blackelk
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28 Jan 2009, 9:38 am

b9 wrote:
i have scant conscience. i was tested for psychopathy but failed because i can love animals.

i do not ever feel "guilty" about anything. i both can not feel it, and also i do not know why i should feel it.

in an old freudian sense, "conscience" is in the realm of the superego. that is the realm that is governed by the attachment to parental and other superior controls that one adopts as their "justifying" values. but that never occurred with me.

also i have no "shame" (another hallmark of "conscience"). i have never felt ashamed at anything i ever did. i do not know why. maybe it is because i can not identify with anyone who i would feel ashamed in front of. it is too murky for me to inspect.

on the other end of the spectrum i have no "pride". pride is the opposite of shame and i experience nothing in that continuum.

so i do not have much conscience to speak of. i have no malice and i do understand justice in a simple way.
but "conscience" is not a driving factor in my actions.


Well Freud thought conscience was created by civilization. Guilt is basically what holds society together. It is the government inside us.
Quote:
Civilization, therefore, obtains mastery over the individual's dangerous desire for aggression by weakening and disarming it and by setting up an agency within him to watch over it, like a garrison in a conquered city.


I think everybody has some sort of guilt,conscience, shame. Even if it is subconscious. If you really had none of these things you would probably be in prison or something. Humans are social animals who fear being excommunicated from family, friends, society, etc... This is what all guilt is based on. Fear of loss of love/acceptance. This is the only fear a child has. Every wrong he does, he think his punishment will be loss of love by the parent. That is the main fear he knows. This carries over into loss of love/acceptance from society as we age. We have to have this guilt or society wouldn't work. I am paraphrasing Freud here.



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28 Jan 2009, 10:13 am

blackelk wrote:
I think everybody has some sort of guilt,conscience, shame. Even if it is subconscious. If you really had none of these things you would probably be in prison or something.


I disagree. It's always a matter of chance, luck, circumstances and personal ability.

Or else everybody with only psychopathic traits such as an impaired or missing conscience, high impulsivity, superficial charm, pathological lying and so on would be in prison.

None of these traits automatically make you to be delinquent as defined by the law.

It depends largely on the rest of abilities you were born with, current and former environmental circumstances and of course, a huge potion of luck.


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NeantHumain
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28 Jan 2009, 10:27 am

blackelk wrote:
I think everybody has some sort of guilt,conscience, shame. Even if it is subconscious. If you really had none of these things you would probably be in prison or something. Humans are social animals who fear being excommunicated from family, friends, society, etc... This is what all guilt is based on. Fear of loss of love/acceptance. This is the only fear a child has. Every wrong he does, he think his punishment will be loss of love by the parent. That is the main fear he knows. This carries over into loss of love/acceptance from society as we age. We have to have this guilt or society wouldn't work. I am paraphrasing Freud here.

I think you err here. I'm not sure about most people, but when I contemplate what I will do, I don't think in terms of being ostracized by friends, family, and society. For one, I don't really have any friends to worry about being ostracized from, and for another, I think it's a more basic sense. I think for most people, it is the mere thought of doing something harmful that makes them cringe; that's why religious fanatics and cults have to indoctrinate people to overcome this native sense of compassion to hurt others in the name of their favorite god. I think also it has to do with perspective: understanding that short-term gain really doesn't bring about happiness.



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28 Jan 2009, 10:27 am

Sora wrote:
blackelk wrote:
I think everybody has some sort of guilt,conscience, shame. Even if it is subconscious. If you really had none of these things you would probably be in prison or something.


I disagree. It's always a matter of chance, luck, circumstances and personal ability.

Or else everybody with only psychopathic traits such as an impaired or missing conscience, high impulsivity, superficial charm, pathological lying and so on would be in prison.

None of these traits automatically make you to be delinquent as defined by the law.

It depends largely on the rest of abilities you were born with, current and former environmental circumstances and of course, a huge potion of luck.


Well I dont know. It is basically evolution. Getting excommunicated from the group was death in early man's life. So sensations and other instincts/reflexes formed to kind of lash and prod us to make sure we behave and dont get kicked out of the group so we can survive. Staying in the group was imperative to survival.



NeantHumain
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28 Jan 2009, 11:13 am

blackelk wrote:
Sora wrote:
blackelk wrote:
I think everybody has some sort of guilt,conscience, shame. Even if it is subconscious. If you really had none of these things you would probably be in prison or something.


I disagree. It's always a matter of chance, luck, circumstances and personal ability.

Or else everybody with only psychopathic traits such as an impaired or missing conscience, high impulsivity, superficial charm, pathological lying and so on would be in prison.

None of these traits automatically make you to be delinquent as defined by the law.

It depends largely on the rest of abilities you were born with, current and former environmental circumstances and of course, a huge potion of luck.


Well I dont know. It is basically evolution. Getting excommunicated from the group was death in early man's life. So sensations and other instincts/reflexes formed to kind of lash and prod us to make sure we behave and dont get kicked out of the group so we can survive. Staying in the group was imperative to survival.

The thing about the primary psychopath is their ability to remain in the good graces of many in the group despite their exploitative behavior. It's an evolutionary arms race; when the altruists evolve better strategies for detecting cheaters, the cheaters evolve more effective strategies of deception.



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28 Jan 2009, 1:41 pm

Sora wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
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That much for conscience making you a good person as most of society believes. That's laughable.


To you, maybe.

Now scurry out of here, cockroach. Back to your hole in the wall.


You can be exceptionally charming hihi


Without reading your whole post, and noticing it was you, I might have said the same thing. I have a conscience, but it is clear it is not what YOU believe it to be. You seem to think it means the same as shame, or FORCES you to be nice. That is not the case. It can PREVENT shame, and help one to be nice. Could I start a program like "12 Daily Pro"? YEP! And I bet I could make it seem more legit, and MAYBE even make a profit. And I could have done it LONG ago! I could have easily avoided the main thing that caused them trouble. But, even though people have treated me bad, I wouldn't do that. My conscience doesn't even get involved but, if it did, it would agree.