Not 'moving with the group'

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This is a very interesting discussion.

That fits for me too. I have experienced four very different kinds of group socialising.

The first and worst is when find myself in a group that virtually ignores me, or just barely politely tolerates my contributions, ( so long as I keep them short ), or gives me funny looks and pointedly "returns" to the more general "flow/dance" of social "signal-exchanging", in which content comes a very poor second to form.

The second is of sitting with a group of people and just smiling and listening politely, and saying nothing, ( or almost ). That way I am just treated as background "group"/an extra. And it is almost sleep-inducingly boring when it lasts for more than a few minutes.

The third is finding myself with people who discuss things/ideas etc as if it were that that mattered. Not always unproblematical either, because pecking order will emerge even then, but at least the conversational "dance" is more comprehensible to me. I can engage with the "content" and noone thinks this is odd or out of place.

The fourth, the most magical, and infrequent, and usually the result of smoking cannabis and/or drinking, is when I suddenly seem to "feel" that flow between people, and be able to follow it, even to actively direct/form/create it. I had a period like that with a group in my early/mid twenties in which I was one of the "action-generators" , who would have the ideas about what to do, and could include others we met along the way in the most spontaneous manner.

And interestingly I remember being aware of people who were "cut-out"/excluded at that time, and of not being one of them for a change. That went to my head a bit. But since having my breakdown, and almost completely avoiding alcohol and cannabis, I have rarely had this experience.

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/\ I've also noticed all these types of groups & find myself participating in much the same way (and also what ManErg wrote - that the addition of a single person can change a group from one type to another.)

Very often, I find myself in this role:

- which I've been told makes NTs uncomfortable. Apparently, they find it unnatural (creepy?) for a person to listen without talking. I've been told that the "correct" (expected?) behavior is to say something - no matter how stupid, or inane - in order to be welcome in the group. Otherwise, the other group members tend to feel uncomfortable to have someone just listening to them.

For this reason, I avoid that type of group. I'm much more likely to find myself here:

Succinct, and exactly right.

Yes, you´re right that this varies between people, and I think I learned long ago which people I feel uncomfortable around and who to avoid. But in addition to that, I also really notice that people who work with me- students, actors, dancers or other teachers and artists- seem to already accept me due to the work I´ve done, so I feel more socially comfortable around those people- (aside from the fact that theater people tend to usually be more in the "tolerant" group, and seem to be less preoccupied with the social status quo anyway). Of course, every now and then I get burned by one of the jealous types, but that´s another story...

But when I´m with non-theater people, or people who don´t really know me, suddenly my "social notch" plummets and people ignore me or act disinterested, so it´s very hard to come into these situations. I feel very uncomfortable, and suddenly my autistic traits get stronger. I feel like I did when I was a child again, and totally clueless. This is what I mean by feeling like 2 different people. And I can´t seem to change that, and bring on the "other me" in an uncomfortable situation. It all has to do with who I´m with, I guess.

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Well, I think this is different if you are a woman! Sometimes I have the feeling that people like me best when I don´t talk- (just smile- I learned early on that smiling is important for a woman). I always feel like I´m totally boring when I don´t talk, but people seem to like me and think I´m "nice". In fact, I think they just choose whatever nondescript womanly personality that they like, and they think I´m that person. When I talk a lot (which I tend to do more often anyway)- I´ve heard people are taken aback by my energy and intensity. Can´t win either way....Sigh.

Well, I think this is different if you are a woman! Sometimes I have the feeling that people like me best when I don´t talk- (just smile- I learned early on that smiling is important for a woman). I always feel like I´m totally boring when I don´t talk, but people seem to like me and think I´m "nice". In fact, I think they just choose whatever nondescript womanly personality that they like, and they think I´m that person. When I talk a lot (which I tend to do more often anyway)- I´ve heard people are taken aback by my energy and intensity. Can´t win either way....Sigh.[/quote]

This depressed girl in my class - her dad died or something - we did a group project and I was always wondering "Does she extremely dislike me - or is she just depressed?" so if you are a girl and you smile and initiate a conversation with people, they won't be afraid to talk to you;; they won't be afraid that you dislike them.

I think that's exactly why so few women get diagnosed with AS. Everyone is busy projecting "womanly" qualities on them - they don't see the real person.

Yeah, good point. Of course, when I talk, I seem to shock people and they can´t project these "womanly personalities" on me anymore...ha!

Happens to me, especially when the conversation dynamic shifts (new topic, someone else enters the group, etc.). Most of the time I'm either completely uninterested in paying attention, or at a loss for what I'm supposed to do, so I just pick out some inanimate object in the room that interests me more.

You've raised an interesting point that I think has struck a chord with a lot of us. For my part, I've spent a lot of time pondering why it is that I get so many different reactions, almost all of them wrong, from other people. There are those who stand there grinning, waiting for me to say something funny like I "always" do. For some reason, they are the ones who incense me beyond all rational thought and in my ruder past I have had the tendency to go out of my way to offend them. There are people who assume I will act like they do (a lot of people do this, I believe it is fairly natural), people who assume I know what they mean or know what they know, people who assume I am like someone else they know who looks like me or acts like me or who has kids like I do. I frequently fail to satisfy, and thus the female personality they project for me is more politely mentioned in canine breeding circles.

But I was lucky in one thing. I once met a man (through my college roommate) who I first wrote to and then got to know primarily on the telephone and internet. There was nothing but the real me available for him to get to know and as a result, he already knew a lot about me before we met. This has made it easier to have such a good marriage for almost 16 years so far with no end in sight.

that somehow actually made it a thousand times harder for me when I finally met up with a girl I'd been talking to online, when I lived back in NJ.

Thankfully, I met the love of my life at work; we're still together after a year, and yes....I do plan on eventually proposing to her.

Well, we also corresponded this way for a year and a half before we got married. It was hard to adapt for some time after the wedding, but it would have been for me anyway. So there you go. I wouldn't suggest that kind of courtship period works for everyone. But for us it did. Now we're anti-social together. I'm certain he's NT but I think I've been a bad influence... now he prefers to avoid groups himself. Of course, with his family the way they are, I can't take all the blame for it... see the first post I put up in this thread.