anyone else find IQ test-score threads funny?

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Anemone ...i do not find giftedness, difference or brilliance funny. I find them extraordinary and wonderful and delightful and awe-inspiring.
i find the reliance on IQ tests as PROOF of that, funny.
you have failed to grasp the distinction I am making.

The Flynn effect data has been challenged and I for one don't believe it actually exists.

Elaborate if you would.

You're NUTS! It is more likely that the test WRITERS are getting dumber, so they are asking simpler questions!

BTW outside of SOME words and contemporary ideas, the abilities they test existed HUNDREDS of years ago.

Evidence, please? While I am aware on this site it is acceptable to present ones own thoughts as a refutation of (even quite well) accepted observations in many and myriad fields, twoshots sees no reason to take it seriously in the face of the more established account.

Here's just the usual simply stuuf from wikiwhatever:

The Flynn effect is the rise of the average Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test scores over generations (IQ gains over time). It is an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at greatly varying rates. It is named after James R. Flynn, who did much to document it and promote awareness of its implications. This increase has been continuous and roughly linear from the earliest days of testing to the present. "Test scores are certainly going up all over the world, but whether intelligence itself has risen remains controversial," psychologist Ulric Neisser wrote in an article in 1997 in The American Scientist.[1] The Flynn effect may have ended in some developed nations starting in the mid 1990s although other studies, such as Black Americans reduce the racial IQ gap: Evidence from standardization samples (Dickens, Flynn; 2006), still show gains between 1972 and 2002.

But I have read elsewhere that much of this 'Flynn' related thinking about IQ in history is being challenged and the new thinking is that our ancestor may actually have been more intelligent than we are today, relatively speaking. From reading my ancestors papers I think this indeed may be tyhe case in some instances.

Anemone, it is so evident you ARE gifted - so very apparent. why on earth do you need to bring up Category Five in just about every thread?

I wish you would just rejoice in your brilliance without the need for the category five stuff.
and the sad thing is, this post seems to indicate you really use it as a great demarcation line that MUST isolate you from others.
Yes... your brain is amazing. Yes - it means you are gifted. Yes. it must be lonely at times. and very hard. and i certainly for one do not want you to dumb down. i love reading your posts and have learned so much from them. i want to stipulate i am not being facetious here.

quite frankly, at other times i've seen your posts take a good old blow torch to quite a few here and there.
so spare me the victim stuff.

the heterogeneity of human beings is before you. jump in and enjoy the ride. you might find everyone has a 'difference' or two to them that just cannot be measured in IQ categories.
that has been my point all along.

that's my view. i'm off to paint.

Well, I did NOT mention any "more established account". As for the increase in test scores, etc...? When I was first in school, test scores were ABSOLUTE! Within a decade or so, it seemed like ALL were "graded on a curve". That means RELATIVE to everyone else. So you went from a case where ALL could fail to a case where SOMEONE had to pass! HECK, even the idea of an IQ is on a sliding scale. If everyone were a blithering idiot, many would STILL have a 100 IQ!

The first grade English primer from over a CENTURY ago would put many 5th graders today to SHAME! And illiteracy in the U.S. today is WAY too high. Teachers don't even want to help THIRD graders for fear that it may stress the kid out!

IQs are normally distributed around 100 by definition. I don't see what you're getting at; the point is that if we used the same standards as 80 years ago we'd all be gifted.


Evidence, please?

As to evidence about school book content one only has to visit any good text book publishing company meseum to see the stark differences in content over the decades. I am fortunate enough to have a private collection that tours the country on occassion. In 1929 they taught Handel in first grade music class for instance. A 1940 Scott Forseman 4th grade math book looks about like what is used in 10th grade today. The entire world has been dumbed down to a staggering extent over the past century.

YEP!

And twoshots....

Your statement about the 100 IQ IS my case! YOU MADE IT! If people today had only HALF the ability that they did 10 years ago, the IQ distribution would be roughly the SAME! The IQ has inflated, just as grades, and even MONEY!

As for the Flynn Effect: If you consider the ancient Egyptians and what we know about their civilization, it was a time of high IQ, to some extent, anyhows.
What about the dark ages in Europe? Low IQ there. Then came the Renaissance, overall IQ went up at least ten points.

If we use civilizations and accomplishments as a guide, we can search for correlations. Much more accurate an indicator than IQ test scores.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 17 Mar 2009, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dumbing down the curriculum could easily just reflect a larger number of people in the educational system; while if you go back 200 years of course everyone who gets an education will seem brilliant, as they corresponded to the upper echelon of society's brains.
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You have entirely missed my point. IF THE IQ HADN'T BEEN RENORMED people would come up as smarter not dumber.

I do agree that more people than ever are being educated but the extent or quality of that education is pitiful compared to what it once was. Since I study textbooks I can show you the difference in content that has changed since the 1800's up to the present time at all levels including college and don't even get me going about the Ebonics experiments.

MAN, you have been BRAINWASHED!! !! !! They USED to hire people with an average of a highschool degree! There weren't that many colleges. NOW, there are MORE colleges, and people EXPECT it! So availability of the title went up, and perceived need went up. Those TWO things would increase the figures, as you stated, ALONE! LOANS have increased! SCHOLARSHIPS have increased! Those TWO things would increase the figures, as you stated, ALONE! There are a LOT of crazy "majors". There are "diploma mills". There are LIARS! Need I REALLY go on? You show something that has NO real purpose! Going to college MIGHT teach the person more, but it does NOT necessarily make them smarter. A LOT of college students/graduates do some pretty STUPID things!

HECK, you don't even say WHAT the degrees were in, or the school that awarded them. A degree in german to a native german is NOT as good as a nobel peace prize, for a WORTHWHILE discovery, given to a nuclear scientist fresh out of college. An ITT diploma is not worth an MIT one.

Garyww, folks were better off when they had to copy everything word for word and write clearly enough to read later, onto their own paper. They couldn't take the textbook home. Their handwriting was much better.