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First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Radiant
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25 Oct 2009, 5:58 pm

millie wrote:
This is wonderful Greentea.

Here is my very basic question:

Why do many NT people not say what they think and say what they do not think?

Please NT people willing to answer - give more of an answer than "politeness." :)

Why are things so unclear? I spend much time after interactions with people, trying to decipher the true meanings - the subtexts and the subtleties. This has led to lifelong confusion in any kind of relationships with people. NT people I know, giggle at me and say "oh millie..." And I am nearing 47 and still no closer to understanding the truths or untruths behind the words. It makes life and people rather scary.

i think that nearly covers it all...until the next question.




Not all NT's are like that. Some people are more kind or willing to be honest than others. Some are not in touch with their feelings. Some think they do not have the time to give the complete, correct answer. Some are private and don't want to answer and are not willing to explain that.



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25 Oct 2009, 6:03 pm

Janissy wrote:
Gerhardt wrote:
This is a question for NT's, generally young women NT's but anyone can answer:

What would the best way for an Aspie to tell you that he has Aspergers? A lot of times I meet NT women that are nice and all but they misinterpret my cold gaze and lack of social congruency as stand offish and insecure, and thus refuse to date me. I feel if they know I have aspergers they'll be more prone to understanding how I work and seeing my true colors. I've told some women that I have Aspergers directly but it ends up making things even more awkward.



There are a lot of shallow people in the world will not understand no matter how you explain.

May be that you just haven't met the person right for you. Love comes with understanding.



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25 Oct 2009, 6:10 pm

Greentea wrote:
QUESTION TO NTs:

Example: I divorced my husband of 1 year (no kids) for mental and physical violence. He knows I despise him. We bumped into each other 15 years later and he smiled at me. Why do NTs feel the need to be cordial even if they know there's no way in hell it can mean anything at all to the other, because the other knows their true face? And why should I smile back or say hello to someone I consider a piece of sh**? Why is the pretense of friendliness always above all?



Abusive people are not healthy NTs. I wouldn't give him another thought. Your time is more valuable than that.



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25 Oct 2009, 6:21 pm

Janissy wrote:
Greentea wrote:
Questions to the NTs:

1. How do you identify/spot who the influential people are (at work or any other group where it's crucial to survive/succeed)?
2. Once you've identified them, how do you identify what you can help them with, so that they'll (hopefully) become supporters of you?

We were told today at the workshop that this is what we have to do, but I don't know how to do it, and they didn't have time to go into that.


1)Watch who other people flock around. There will be somebody in the group who is like a sun with lots of little planets orbiting around him. That's the influential person.

2)Once you've identified them, you have to identify WHY people flock to him. Is it because he's the liason between your group and other groups? Is it because he has the most social connections? Is it because he has power over what the group is able to do (financial, hiring/firing, political)? Find this out by talking to the other people who flock around him. An innocent "who IS that guy?" may give you the answer you need.

3)Once you know his role and why people flock around him, make sure that you don't do anything that gets in the way of him performing his role. For example, if he is the liason between your group and other groups, don't try to go "over his head" when you need something from these other groups. Go to him instead. I know that this step is a lot harder than the first 2 steps. Try to copy the actions of the other people as they relate to him.

(I know that "him" might actually be "her".)



They also like the person with the chocolate jar, the person who brings the bagels and cream cheese before staff meetings, the person who remembers and celebrates everyone's birthday.

Sitting next to or near the influential person and, in the course of the meeting, add to one positive item the person said, "Jay mentioned we could expand the paint project. I think that's a great idea and who would like to be on the committee with me?"
"Jacinda mentioned finding new customers. I think that's a great idea. What goal and timeline shall we set?"



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25 Oct 2009, 6:36 pm

Greentea wrote:
And are NTs born knowing these things?


Definitely not. There are various personality theories. Myers Briggs for example.



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25 Oct 2009, 6:41 pm

Radiant wrote:
Greentea wrote:
And are NTs born knowing these things?


I think we make these connections through observation and by understanding cause and effect and being able to generalize our assumptions and predict behaviors based on all of this.



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25 Oct 2009, 6:45 pm

Moomoogelato wrote:
I really don't intend to offend anyone with my questions, so please do not take them that way. These questions are hurting me morally, so I would like answers.

I guess my question is... [b]can any of you, AS or NT, relate to this feeling of having a "fake" disability, even though you know it's real at the same time?

When I see someone who has it worse than me, it doesn't make me realize how good I have it, it makes me realize what a crappy person I am and how stupid I am to not be dealing with my life with a smile on my face like they are. Can anyone else relate to that, either?



There is no "fake" disability. There are many "hidden" disabilities that people have.

It's not useful to compare disabilities. Each person has a different experience in this world.



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25 Oct 2009, 7:07 pm

marshall wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
I have actually had someone ask me 'What are some of your weird habits?' then when I said I collected insects (only dead ones, I don't harm or kill live ones) they reacted to me like I said I raped children.

Seems a certain small amount of eccentricity is ok, but anything outside of that is not.

I think maybe they would have reacted better if you had brought it up in the context of "weird hobbies" rather than "weird habits". I hobby implies that you enjoy classifying/studying insects. A habit gives the impression that you just compulsively pick up dead insects whenever you see them. I think it might just be a matter of ignorance. If they've never seen a real insect collection they get the wrong picture in their mind.


It sounds to me like the person was rude asking mechanicalgirl this in the first place. It's okay to not answer questions like that.



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25 Oct 2009, 7:14 pm

Greentea wrote:
One to the NTs:

Why is it that when I call someone "rude" for telling me a "white lie", they don't react hurt or surprised? Eg of white lie in this case: "I'll be too busy with a project in the next few weeks so I won't be answering any emails."


lies have become too common in some sub-cultures, in my opinion.

sometimes it's a bad habit the person doesn't realize he developed.

sometimes it's better to not confront and just take the statement as "information".

sometimes what they are doing is setting boundaries and attempting to prioritize their time. we do live in a busy world...



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25 Oct 2009, 7:17 pm

Janissy wrote:
Greentea wrote:
Janissy, but if the white lie teller knows that the other person prefers a white lie (this is a tacit agreement in NT society), then why isn't he surprised/hurt when the receiver calls him rude for doing it?


Layers upon layers. This is the sort of double think that makes AS people wild with frustration but I think it's something like this:

White lies are an accepted way to avoid confrontation and give the veneer of politness. Neverthless, they are lies. And people who lie should be ashamed of themselves because we all should be honest. Except we shouldn't always be honest. Yes we should. No we shouldn't. AAAGGHHHHHH! Yes, these things are in conflict with each other. On the one hand, white lies save face for everyone and avoid conflict. On the other hand, they are still lies and therefore inherently shameful- although only mildly shameful. A person caught in a lie won't be hurt or suprised. They will be defensive or ashamed or some combination of the two (dismissive or angry are versions of defensive). But being hurt implies the OTHER person is in the wrong (you, in this case) and that's not an option when you've told a lie. And there's no point in being surprised because everybody who tells a lie will at some point be caught out so no suprise it happened.

How can something be both required and shameful if you are caught doing it? I have no idea. These two things are apparently in conflict. But that's the best I can do for an explanation.



oh, and in some sub-cultures like the USA "southern hospitality" has layers of politeness that is really layers of lying. The more polite they are; the less they care. "Bless your heart" really means "sucks to be you".



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25 Oct 2009, 7:23 pm

Janissy wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
First: Excellent thread.

Second: Maybe this doesn't belong here, but when is it a good time to let your NT boyfriend (or significant other) in on the fact that you have AS (or are on the spectrum)? Let's say it's been a month and things are looking good. Or is it too late and ... What to do?

ETA: Let me clarify and say that this is a hypothetical--I'm not in a relationship, but I like to be prepared for when it happens. (Still hoping, *fingers crossed*.) I still hope that this is the right place to ask this question.

And I know, hypotheticals ... um ... I'll shut up now. :roll:


I would advise doing it after you've gotten to the point in that relationship where you are both sharing deeper things about each other. At the beginning you share superficialities: what you do for a job, where you grew up, what movies and music you like, interests you share that you can do together. After a while (different amount of time for each couple) you start sharing things that aren't superficial, that go deeper, that you wouldn't share with somebody who doesn't know you well. That's when you tell him.



It's useful to find a time that is free of distractions or when the person has opened up to you about something. With some people it works to ask them when a good time is. Best to test the waters with something less important to see how the person reacts.



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25 Oct 2009, 7:25 pm

Greentea wrote:
...If they haven't run by then, LOL I don't think I'd reach that stage in a relationship, unless I told them well at the beginning not to interpret my behaviors the way an NT's would be interpreted... Eg: I was dating someone, he came to visit, rang the downstairs intercom, I asked who it was, he said "John", I was so happy and excited that I ran downstairs to meet him, and because I can't focus on 2 things at once, I forgot to buzz and/or say "I'm coming down!" so when I reached downstairs he had thought that I had slammed the intercom phone on him, was terribly angry, left and never believed me that I have a focus and multi-tasking problem, how come I'd never mentioned such an important thing about me to him before. I never saw him again.


believe me, there are many more kind, patient people out there who would have reacted more positively and still been then when you got downstairs.



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25 Oct 2009, 7:27 pm

Greentea wrote:
It's one of the most amazing stories that happened in my life, and today is the first time I have the opportunity to tell it to someone. I never dared to tell anyone because NTs wouldn't believe me that it didn't occur to me to buzz the intercom and/or say "I'm coming down!" They'd once again tell me I'm evil. I guess with him being a child Psychiatrist nowadays, he would've believed me if I'd told him there's such a thing as Asperger's. But it's too late.

Thanks for listening...



Or, maybe he's more mature and understanding now.



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25 Oct 2009, 7:40 pm

[quote="Pook"]Great Idea :D

Looking for NT's as I have always been clueless with these...

1. Why do NTs seem uncertain of Aspies that have poor eyecontact and may or may not appear nervous?


In addition to the "lying" presumption, some are interpreting that you are not actually listening to them, and some don't realize that in some cultures it is a sign of respect.



2. Why do some friends not call or think up activities and I feel I'm the one that has to make out the agenda and set a time?

This also depends on the maturity of the individuals, the group dynamics, and their personalities. People also belong to more than one social circle. MeetUp helps some people bypass this.


3. How do NTs make negative statements about someone that is suppossed to be a friend and then that very NT turns around and acts like you are the best friend ever? I have walked up on conversations where I've heard "she's xxx or that is just the way she is" and so on and the talk ceased when I walked up to the group. Many NTs do not realise how that hurts as most aspies have keen eyesight and good hearing among the five senses. I tend to be a very loyal and accepting this and this has always puzzled me.

might be useful to have a heart to heart conversation with this person.


4. Why in work situations don't those in positions of authority let the worker know what is not a desirable behavior if it is something that should be addressed?

there are effective supervisors (like you desire) and many ineffective ones out there. You also might try an individual conversation with the supervisor (if it is an approachable one) and say once, "I like my job and strive to do well. I'm a self-reflective person and I'll appreciate any feedback that you can give me."

Write it down to refer to later and thank them with a smile or handshake. "Thank you. That's helpful." and walk away (then reflect and choose one visible change to make at a time).

If they are not a willing participant, then you did your part and that's all you can do.



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25 Oct 2009, 8:03 pm

Janissy wrote:
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4. Why in work situations don't those in positions of authority let the worker know what is not a desirable behavior if it is something that should be addressed?

Coworkers are a better source of direct feedback.



TRUSTED coworkers, that is.

Workplace politics dictate not sharing too much personal information with every co-worker depending on the work environment.

Non-trusted coworkers may not give you the feedback you need and may, instead, use what you say for their own 'ladder climbing' gain.

Another way to gain useful feedback is to schedule Informational Interviews with colleagues you admire who may work elsewhere. Informational Interviews are designed for you to ask questions to gain insights into the reality of the job, career, work field from the person who agrees to give you 30 minutes of their time. In that setting it is okay to say, "I admire how you handle yourself. I'm wondering if you will share examples of how you've handled difficult situations" or, "What behaviors make a person successful in this job?" Take notes!

In my 20s, I asked for an Informational Interview with an executive director of a highly regarded successful not-for-profit organization. In the course of the conversation, the e.d. shared stories of sexual harassment she had endured in her career and how she handled the situations.



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25 Oct 2009, 8:13 pm

Janissy wrote:
Greentea wrote:
Why would the teacher pressure me to tell, if telling is unacceptable? I don't understand... Out of selfishness? Same at work, what do they expect you to do when you have 2 equal bosses giving you opposite instructions, one against the other? I've been fired twice in a row for not knowing what to do in this kind of situation.


Telling is unacceptable to other kids. To teachers it's important. So kids have to decide which is more important to them in a given scenario- what is unacceptable to fellow kids? Or what is asked for by teachers? You chose the kids. Wise, given that it was just a kiss and nothing more.


I disagree. Telling is acceptable to many kids. I work with children professionally and it is not as black and white as you present it.

There are many safe avenues to handle various situations that arise. Children are being trained to tell a trusted adult when it is a safety or important rule issue. Kids may protest being told on; however, in the end it is how the situation is handled that is important.

Greentea, in regards to the firings... next time, keep a private journal to refer back to. If there is a union, join it. If the company has an Employee Assistance Program (EAP), use it.