11 Jan 2010, 7:48 am
I'm a newb here, but I'll give it a shot.. 
Quote:
To NT's:
Besides the obvious, how can you tell if someone is attracted to you or simply wants to strike up a friendship with you?
Besides the obvious, how can you tell if someone is attracted to you or simply wants to strike up a friendship with you?
Of course the simple answer is "if they seem interested in you", but I guess that's the problem. If someone smiles at you/act friendly more than what is absolutely needed, that is a good sign. To use me as example, if I was interested in befriending you further, I would probably be very attentive of you, looking at you, smiling at you. Asking you questions. Personal questions (not meaning intimate but more "How did you enjoy that movie" rather than conversations about weather and facts). In other words, activly listening when you spoke.
Attraction is a whole different ballpark. A girl might touch you. Like touch you arm or shoulder mid conversation, brush up against you given the chance. There's difference in age too. Teenage girls and younger will maybe give you an opening to praise them. Such as coming with statements they might not mean "This hair cut looks so BAD on me" in hope for a compliment from you back. So many possible signs, and all of said signs can be "nothing". Its when alot of them appear that we start pondering if this person likes us, or wants to get to know us better.
And it varies alot. Guys can self-groom alot when talking to you if they like you alot and you are on the getting to know eachother stage. Like brush hair aside, straighten clothes, trying to pose best possible (like taking hands in and out of pocket, resting their weight on one leg, then other, then both). When talking to you they will keep torso turned towards you when talking to you, Ive noticed. At least when trying to chat you up. Its a part of the "I am hereby devoting ALL my attention to you." signs that people might not be ware of them doing.
So, its hard, and there is a "million" little signs to go for, and it's never 100% certain. As some people might not do this, and do this instead and so on. There is no pure text book answer here, I think...
Quote:
How can I best explain to NT's that my body language is often misleading (beyond my control) and that they should not read too much into it?
Even when I explain that I have AS, a lot of NT's seem to have a hard time ignoring my often-misleading body language. Many seem to have a hard time even grasping the concept that my body language is not necessarily indicative of my state of mind. They act like I must be lying when I say things like, "I often look sad or angry when I'm actually quite content." There must be some way to explain it better?
Even when I explain that I have AS, a lot of NT's seem to have a hard time ignoring my often-misleading body language. Many seem to have a hard time even grasping the concept that my body language is not necessarily indicative of my state of mind. They act like I must be lying when I say things like, "I often look sad or angry when I'm actually quite content." There must be some way to explain it better?
There are ways to explain better I guess, but not shorter. To us NTs who havent had much experience with anyone on the autistic spectre before, it's very hard. Especially the parts of the spectre that is high functioning, due to the high functioning makes us think we should expect "normality" in a larger degree than what the person might be able to provide. So I guess the only better way would be to explain more thouroghly. (pardon my spelling btw, I know there is a bunch errors). For instance, the eye contact thing. I was warned that my AS friend didnt feel too comfortable with this, but not told why. So even if I knew, I still expected it on some level. Then I was explained that he felt it too distracting and got too involved with the eye contact that it distracted him from what he was saying/thinking or what I was saying and him listening to. Suddenly it became perfectly understandable for me, and Ive never feel ignored even slightly due to lack of eye contact after that.
So maybe give us a few reasons (if you have) and not just traits. We dont understand the traits so well. You might not either, of course, but by trying to give us some background info on it, it becomes easier to adapt to, somehow. Compare it to a hearing impaired person telling me "I have to face you to speak with you". I say ok and I face the person, I may forget tho and try to call his attention behind his back without a tap on the shoulder and be irked that he doesnt respond. If I get the "because I cant hear you so well" in addition, its suddenly dawns on us why its important to do so.
I talk to much. Hopefully I brought some clearance on these questions, but they're so vast I hope someone else adds stuff too:)
11 Jan 2010, 3:10 pm
12 Jan 2010, 5:04 am
12 Jan 2010, 10:27 am
12 Jan 2010, 10:34 am
13 Jan 2010, 7:15 pm
14 Jan 2010, 12:34 am
15 Jan 2010, 8:35 pm
sartresue
Veteran
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
15 Jan 2010, 8:50 pm
Thellie wrote:
autistic spectre
ASpooky topic
A keeper.
15 Jan 2010, 10:11 pm
16 Jan 2010, 3:07 am
MathGirl wrote:
To NTs: Do you notice it if a person looks at your mouth instead of your eyes when you're talking to them? How do you feel when they do so?
I've deliberately done this experiment on a few neurotypicals and asked them about it, and they thought that I was making eye contact. I found that quite intriguing,
I've deliberately done this experiment on a few neurotypicals and asked them about it, and they thought that I was making eye contact. I found that quite intriguing,
I think it would depend on how close I was to the individual talking. At very close distances, it's obvious. As they move a little further (like across a table in a group at a party), it isn't likely to be noticed. Except that you are going to miss any winks or raised eyebrows or other subtle methods of communication that the person may be throwing at you, and that may confuse them a little
Totally off topic but I couldn't help thinking as I read this question of a man I met at a party some twenty five years ago who seemed to want to engage in conversation only with my clevage. I never wore that dress again.
16 Jan 2010, 3:19 am
Sallamandrina wrote:
For NTs or anybody who would like to answer:
I have been told that more often then not, people's image of themselves and their worth is directly and strongly related to their place in society and the way others see them. So they can increase their self respect and confidence if people think highly of them or see them as successful. This might seem obvious for some, but as far as I'm concerned, my self image is rarely if ever influenced by the way I'm perceived or the impression I make. But if this actually works as a strong motivation for many, it would explain a lot of situations that perplexed me in the past.
I have been told that more often then not, people's image of themselves and their worth is directly and strongly related to their place in society and the way others see them. So they can increase their self respect and confidence if people think highly of them or see them as successful. This might seem obvious for some, but as far as I'm concerned, my self image is rarely if ever influenced by the way I'm perceived or the impression I make. But if this actually works as a strong motivation for many, it would explain a lot of situations that perplexed me in the past.
It does. Its not universal, because as people get more self-secure, and if they have a truly strong social network, they start to care less. The whole thing seemed especially strong when I was teetering at the edge of influential society; those people cling to that position and don't want to fall off the radar. It can be a really heady place, that level of society. For me, it was fun while it lasted, but I wasn't surprised to find few of those friendships were real. It didn't define me.
I do enjoy validation from others, and it helps me feel that my life has meaning. A little different from needing high social status; just being useful and truly appreciated in a real but unelevated way in my little corner of the world. But my AS son seems to be annoyed by people's attempts to validate his efforts, far more than strenghened by it. I've found that really interesting. He truly does things because they give him joy, or because he sees value in them ... or because he's been forced to
But validation from others doesn't seem to be a very big part of the equation.
16 Jan 2010, 4:25 am
Thanks for the replies to my previous question 
Aspies: Do you have empathy? Please elaborate.
sartresue
Veteran
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
16 Jan 2010, 10:00 am
16 Jan 2010, 10:35 am
Thellie wrote:
I'm a newb here, but I'll give it a shot..
Of course the simple answer is "if they seem interested in you", but I guess that's the problem. If someone smiles at you/act friendly more than what is absolutely needed, that is a good sign. To use me as example, if I was interested in befriending you further, I would probably be very attentive of you, looking at you, smiling at you. Asking you questions. Personal questions (not meaning intimate but more "How did you enjoy that movie" rather than conversations about weather and facts). In other words, activly listening when you spoke.
Attraction is a whole different ballpark. A girl might touch you. Like touch you arm or shoulder mid conversation, brush up against you given the chance. There's difference in age too. Teenage girls and younger will maybe give you an opening to praise them. Such as coming with statements they might not mean "This hair cut looks so BAD on me" in hope for a compliment from you back. So many possible signs, and all of said signs can be "nothing". Its when alot of them appear that we start pondering if this person likes us, or wants to get to know us better.
And it varies alot. Guys can self-groom alot when talking to you if they like you alot and you are on the getting to know eachother stage. Like brush hair aside, straighten clothes, trying to pose best possible (like taking hands in and out of pocket, resting their weight on one leg, then other, then both). When talking to you they will keep torso turned towards you when talking to you, Ive noticed. At least when trying to chat you up. Its a part of the "I am hereby devoting ALL my attention to you." signs that people might not be ware of them doing.
So, its hard, and there is a "million" little signs to go for, and it's never 100% certain. As some people might not do this, and do this instead and so on. There is no pure text book answer here, I think...
There are ways to explain better I guess, but not shorter. To us NTs who havent had much experience with anyone on the autistic spectre before, it's very hard. Especially the parts of the spectre that is high functioning, due to the high functioning makes us think we should expect "normality" in a larger degree than what the person might be able to provide. So I guess the only better way would be to explain more thouroghly. (pardon my spelling btw, I know there is a bunch errors). For instance, the eye contact thing. I was warned that my AS friend didnt feel too comfortable with this, but not told why. So even if I knew, I still expected it on some level. Then I was explained that he felt it too distracting and got too involved with the eye contact that it distracted him from what he was saying/thinking or what I was saying and him listening to. Suddenly it became perfectly understandable for me, and Ive never feel ignored even slightly due to lack of eye contact after that.
So maybe give us a few reasons (if you have) and not just traits. We dont understand the traits so well. You might not either, of course, but by trying to give us some background info on it, it becomes easier to adapt to, somehow. Compare it to a hearing impaired person telling me "I have to face you to speak with you". I say ok and I face the person, I may forget tho and try to call his attention behind his back without a tap on the shoulder and be irked that he doesnt respond. If I get the "because I cant hear you so well" in addition, its suddenly dawns on us why its important to do so.
I talk to much. Hopefully I brought some clearance on these questions, but they're so vast I hope someone else adds stuff too:)
Quote:
To NT's:
Besides the obvious, how can you tell if someone is attracted to you or simply wants to strike up a friendship with you?
Besides the obvious, how can you tell if someone is attracted to you or simply wants to strike up a friendship with you?
Of course the simple answer is "if they seem interested in you", but I guess that's the problem. If someone smiles at you/act friendly more than what is absolutely needed, that is a good sign. To use me as example, if I was interested in befriending you further, I would probably be very attentive of you, looking at you, smiling at you. Asking you questions. Personal questions (not meaning intimate but more "How did you enjoy that movie" rather than conversations about weather and facts). In other words, activly listening when you spoke.
Attraction is a whole different ballpark. A girl might touch you. Like touch you arm or shoulder mid conversation, brush up against you given the chance. There's difference in age too. Teenage girls and younger will maybe give you an opening to praise them. Such as coming with statements they might not mean "This hair cut looks so BAD on me" in hope for a compliment from you back. So many possible signs, and all of said signs can be "nothing". Its when alot of them appear that we start pondering if this person likes us, or wants to get to know us better.
And it varies alot. Guys can self-groom alot when talking to you if they like you alot and you are on the getting to know eachother stage. Like brush hair aside, straighten clothes, trying to pose best possible (like taking hands in and out of pocket, resting their weight on one leg, then other, then both). When talking to you they will keep torso turned towards you when talking to you, Ive noticed. At least when trying to chat you up. Its a part of the "I am hereby devoting ALL my attention to you." signs that people might not be ware of them doing.
So, its hard, and there is a "million" little signs to go for, and it's never 100% certain. As some people might not do this, and do this instead and so on. There is no pure text book answer here, I think...
Quote:
How can I best explain to NT's that my body language is often misleading (beyond my control) and that they should not read too much into it?
Even when I explain that I have AS, a lot of NT's seem to have a hard time ignoring my often-misleading body language. Many seem to have a hard time even grasping the concept that my body language is not necessarily indicative of my state of mind. They act like I must be lying when I say things like, "I often look sad or angry when I'm actually quite content." There must be some way to explain it better?
Even when I explain that I have AS, a lot of NT's seem to have a hard time ignoring my often-misleading body language. Many seem to have a hard time even grasping the concept that my body language is not necessarily indicative of my state of mind. They act like I must be lying when I say things like, "I often look sad or angry when I'm actually quite content." There must be some way to explain it better?
There are ways to explain better I guess, but not shorter. To us NTs who havent had much experience with anyone on the autistic spectre before, it's very hard. Especially the parts of the spectre that is high functioning, due to the high functioning makes us think we should expect "normality" in a larger degree than what the person might be able to provide. So I guess the only better way would be to explain more thouroghly. (pardon my spelling btw, I know there is a bunch errors). For instance, the eye contact thing. I was warned that my AS friend didnt feel too comfortable with this, but not told why. So even if I knew, I still expected it on some level. Then I was explained that he felt it too distracting and got too involved with the eye contact that it distracted him from what he was saying/thinking or what I was saying and him listening to. Suddenly it became perfectly understandable for me, and Ive never feel ignored even slightly due to lack of eye contact after that.
So maybe give us a few reasons (if you have) and not just traits. We dont understand the traits so well. You might not either, of course, but by trying to give us some background info on it, it becomes easier to adapt to, somehow. Compare it to a hearing impaired person telling me "I have to face you to speak with you". I say ok and I face the person, I may forget tho and try to call his attention behind his back without a tap on the shoulder and be irked that he doesnt respond. If I get the "because I cant hear you so well" in addition, its suddenly dawns on us why its important to do so.
I talk to much. Hopefully I brought some clearance on these questions, but they're so vast I hope someone else adds stuff too:)
I'm aware this wasn't meant for me, but I just have to say a few words.
First:
Thellie,
you did not talk too much in this post! It was a fascinating read!!
I wasn't aware that your (NTs') unspoken language is THAT complex!
It's true what the old ones said then: Every NT is a miracle on two legs!
You may be a little limited when it comes to accepting those who aren't like yourselves, but within your own context you're absolutely amazing!
You've given a lot of good info, and I can't believe other aspies won't find it helpful like I do. And yet I'm not sure we'll be able to actually use it in a situation, because we simply can't keep track of all those unspoken messages. At least I know I can't!
But don't misunderstand me: I am very grateful that you would talk to us and explain these things. It is helpful in that we may now know WHY it always is so problematic to try and interact socially with NTs ... not least where courting is concerned.
What you say about forgetting that we for example can't keep eye contact: I've had this happen a LOT! It never fails to baffle me, when people two minutes after I've told them I can't concentrate on looking them in the eye while also listening and preparing a reply, and that this is more a sign that I am Not ignoring them than the opposite, they forget and blaim me for being inattentive towards them; but when you explain this it just seems so harmless and not bullyish or ignorant at all. I will keep it in mind the next time it happens. ^^
Once again: Thank you, Thellie!
And to all NTs:
Please - if in any way you might want to - do not hesitate to explain things and tell us how you see them. It is so helpful, and there is so much to gain for both sides (NTs and Aspies) from our getting to know each others' ways.
Sincerely, Puzelle.
16 Jan 2010, 11:04 am
Koala_girl wrote:
Thanks for the replies to my previous question
Aspies: Do you have empathy? Please elaborate.
Aspies: Do you have empathy? Please elaborate.
Koala girl,
I can only answer for myself: Yes, I have empathy!
But is that enough? What do I have empathy for? When? How do I show it? DO I show it?
That's not easily answered in one post. I believe my empathy begins when I feel I understand somebody. Sometimes this happens immediately when I see them. For instance I can sometimes feel empathy right away when I see somebody cry. Other times it takes more than seeing it.
Sometimes I feel empathy for a person when I've listened to their story. But it has to have elements that I can relate to in some way or other.
Still, isn't this the way empathy is for everybody?
I have to say I don't really believe in the notion that says aspies do not feel empathy.
Of course, there are times when we're so hung up with some problematics that take up our inner life and "binds our emotions" on an inner level.
Even when we might feel empathy, we might not show it the way that NTs are used to see it.
I've noticed that many NTs, when they feel empathy with me or someone else, physically lean towards the person they're feeling the empathy with. An aspie usually doesn't do this, but will sit as he always sit wether he is angry, happy, feeling empathy or something else. We also may not look intently at the person we feel empathy for. I don't! I ... just couldn't! It would feel unnatural to me. I would feel I was being disrespectful and invasive, if I was looking intently at someone. But I feel what I feel no less than anybody else, and I feel empathy.
I think the notion about us (Aspies) not having the capacity to feel empathy comes from us not seeming very expressive to an NT's eyes.
It may sound strange, but we often feel the same way about you: We often feel that you're non-empathetic, even though you claim otherwise. We often feel that our feelings are much more deeply felt, and a lot stronger, than those of an NT are.
My conclusion, when I realize that both sides feel the same way about the other, and both sides can not confess to what the other think about them, is that we're simply misunderstanding each other a lot, because our ways are so different.
Hence, I believe ... even though it definitely looks otherwise to me ... that NTs have exactly the same capacity for deep and intensive emotions that Aspies do. I just wish I could convince them (the NTs) about this.
Sadly most NTs never read the forums on WrongPlanet, and they'll keep thinking we (Aspies) are really psychopaths.
I'm grateful for people like you, Koala girl, and I definitely encourage everybody who wonders about us odd Aspies, to come and participate.
*******
^L^,
Sincerely, Puzelle.
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