Why do NTs turn nasty ...

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Prejudice, in many forms, comes from the Uncanny Valley.

Now, there are reasons for the Uncanny Valley, but this is why autism is so feared.

I don't think people realise (especially the complaining NTs here) why sites like this came into being. 10 years ago there were no support sites on the net for autistic adults. There were however, support sites for parents and families at which autistics were not welcome or barely tolerated.

The increasing presence of NTs here and their demands to be included are of a concern to me because having had experience in mixed NT/AS groups (and IRL where it's the same), I feel that NTs are both likely and capable of taking over and dominating groups of autistics. They very often seek out positions of power too as that gives them control. In the case of parents/partners seeking to use this group for their support, I wonder where their AS partners and kids can go - if you're not happy for your partner/child to use this site as well, then that rather puts them out in the cold, doesn't it?

I wonder if this site will end up being an NT support site and a lot of autistics will drift away.

You have to remember that NTs are not shy about asking for help and even demanding it as a 'right'. Autistics don't have that ability. That's why you have to privelege AS people at a (supposed) AS support site.

A summary of my response to the general nature of all the recent posts...

Men (meaning men,women, AS, NT) all have a natural instinct to be predators. Most predators tend to choose prey who are weak or injured...like wolves will go after a kid, old person, someone with a broken leg, anyone bleeding, etc. before going after a healthy adult. People have a social order, so many of our predative instincts also occur in the social realm. Bullies target people they perceive to be weaker than them. They will be physically abusive to someone who is physically weaker, and they will be verbally abusive to someone who is socially weaker. That's why Aspies are a big target because by definition, we are socially weaker. I give props to all who are able to overcome their bullies (aspie or not).

I don't appreciate NT's coming on here and acting like they know what Aspies go through with bullying because they were bullied too at some point. Everyone has different experiences, so don't think because you naturally feel some empathy that it's accurate. We may call it bullying, but it's really more like a discrimination. Also, it's not the Aspies that make it about NT's vs Aspies...no the NT's make it about that when they make fun of autistic people and call us ret*d.

I hope WP doesn't stop the "hate speeches" against NTs. This is one of the very few havens for AS to turn to, and they need an outlet for their anger. Much better to type some hateful things here than to let it build and turn into a meltdown. It may not be the healthiest way to express oneself, but it sure beats some of the other options. I personally don't really try to fall under it, and I always try to remind people when all people are like that not just NTs, so I don't believe in enabling it (or encouraging it), but I don't believe banning it is any better because it doesn't confront the issue but rather avoids it. All you NT's reading this... I promise you, telling an Aspie, "You are wrong and hateful for doing that" isn't going to get you far, but telling them, "I feel you but it's not NTs that are that way, but all people are capable of it, and not all are that way, and you can do something about it like...." will go somewhere and turn a useless rant into a useful conversation. I guess in the NT world, it's enough to merely state a problem and consider it solved, but Aspies prefer to hear solutions to their problems. As insulting as it may be for you to hear "NT's suck," it's more insulting to the Aspie for you to state the obvious, "That's discrimination." No duh. We know that. We just have a problem that's so big that we don't care. You know, our temper gets really bad to where we can't always control it? Many Aspies at some point feel that way, and I even have a lot growing up, except I geared my hatred toward society and people in general, which didn't do me any good. I would have loved going to a forum and ranting about it to have someone say, "I know what you are going through...tell me about it." Just that would have been enough to get me to move on instead of dwelling on the injustice.

A couple thoughts - I don't think hate speech should be condoned or protected here. The Haven provides a respite for those who need to vent their anger and frustrations. The comment about bullying works in reverse - it isn't fair to say that those not on the spectrum don't have any base of understanding, either. Our negative experiences should not preclude us from having positive ones.

Some simple semantic changes would go along way. Rail at society, instead of NT's. Use terms that don't generalize so much; instead, refer to "most NT's I've encountered," and so on.

While I understand the history behind this site, there is also an evolution underway across society. You can allow this site to become part of the education process, and part of that evolution, or you can entrench in your anger and miss the opportunity. It is the choice of the various members what path they desire, and the job of the moderators to make sure that parth is consistent with the terms of service.

Personally, I think much is lost when you alienate all the NT's who have a desire to come here. Those that do don't come because they want to take over, or to educate you, or anything like that. We come here because we have a vested in interest in understanding life from an AS perspective, and in figuring out how to help someone we care about navigate that life. It's my job as a parent to do the best by my AS son that I can, and I learn things here that I cannot learn in pure parenting groups where practices aren't based on an AS vision, but on an NT one. Don't you WANT me to use an AS vision with my AS child? Send us away, and that cannot happen.

To date, that I am aware of, moderators have NOT made a practice of censoring - as in removing, deleting, or pm'ing official warnings - anti NT discussion. They HAVE, however, started to try to gently control it. This comes from their own discomfort with it. And they are AS. I am the only moderator that isn't fully AS and I play a very minor role here, focusing my modding on parenting and kids forums, and only jumping in elsewhere generally as a member. It isn't me that is uncomfortable; it is other AS. And their feelings matter. When you speak with hate you make others who are just like you feel uncomfortable. Face it, hate is never comfortable.

The whole point to venting negative feelings and expressing frustration is to move beyond it. Which means, no one should need to spend 5 years repeating the same feelings about NT's. At some point, the venting should move into another phase, one that becomes productive. And we have productive threads here, many of them, on reconciling differences and getting along.

I really don't think we're going to squash all the negative talk tomorrow. I haven't seen anyone suggest that. All I've seen is a few people post along the lines of, "whoah, aren't you being a little harsh? Isn't that potentially running against the terms of service?" They're just asking people to think a little before posting, and to try to see that maybe there are perspectives the angry poster is missing. If someone is going to work through their negative feelings, being confronted in this way is an important part of it. Or do you not want to work through those feelings? Is the hate a badge of honor? I would hope not. That is a horrible way to live.

WP is in no danger of becoming an NT haven. It is well known that this place is anti-NT. But every so often you get someone willing to brave all that in the search of true understanding. I consider that a good thing for the AS community, in the long run.