Studies Reveal Why Kids Get Bullied and Rejected

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You aren't welcome.

I don't see a reason to get nasty. I don't think M was trying to challenge/discredit you. Some people just like to see opinions backed up, mostly out of curiosity, especially logically oriented aspies. If you don't feel like doing that it's no big deal.

He has been harassing me both on the forums and in PM's with his near constant surveillance as a moderator and find it rather overbearing and intimidating both in style and tactic so there's a reason for my frustration and isn't typical for me in normal, usual circumstances. I have reason to be frustrated with his ongoing tactics around me.

Yet, the moderation team has not heard from you about this seeming intrusion on your privacy. Have you contacted any other moderator about this?

Merle

No I haven't. I don't have a lot of confidence that anything would be done about it, based on my early experiences with the justice system in general, and have just done my best to deal with it so that I could as comfortably as possible continue posting and being here. One more failure of justice would be devastating and too difficult for me to tolerate and that's why I haven't. My guess is I would be told I am the one who is wrong when an authority type is involved.

I understand, Meadow. You have had a difficult life and it has caused you to not trust people in authority because sooner or later, you feel they are unjustly dealing with you. That can be frustrating, especially when it seems to happen every time, too.

Merle

Yes. Thank you so much for understanding that.

I've been encountering a lot of cyber bullies lately. They seem to either have mental problems or are insanely jelous or a combonation of both.

Sorry. I wasn't aware of what was going on.

I think it would help if moderators refrained from acting in the role of moderator regarding threads in which they are actively engaged as regular forum participants. It creates the impression, real or perceived, that they are not impartial in thier actions/judgements as moderators - especially when the thread involves a contentious discussion.

I have not moderated this thread, Marshall - only attempted to take part in the conversation.


M.

She mentioned receiving PM's from you. I know it's not really any of my business. It just seems like there's a major misunderstanding going on and I wanted to help.

The cyber bullies I encounter are nothing like that. Just bored people looking for a laugh and there's even a system where a group of them gang up on a person at one time. I just ignore them. If they aren't in the same place as me (physically) then I don't have to bother with them.

The right to freely associate with people that we choose (usually in the basis of common interests and mentalities) raises the well being of people.

And I fell much better if I can be myself, even at the cost of social isolation, than if I have to pretend to be another person to gain social acceptance.



Usually are the quit and shy kids who are bullied. How their behaviour can be considerd "disruptive"?



Well, it will had make ME more happy if, in my preteen years, insead of having the other kids harassing me and the teachers and parents saying "It is your fault because you isolate yourself/behave like an hermit/don't play with them/don't talk with anybody/are always in your own world", I had only the hasassment but not the adults saying that it was my fault.

It is characteristic of NTs that they will pick someone who doesn't quite fit and make them a target - that reinforces their own sense of belonging. And yes, it happens more obviously in schoolyards than anywhere else.

But it doesn't stop there. Autistics are discriminated against everywhere, because we have built our "Civilisation" on that same schoolyard herding instinct. As long as we keep quiet and don't rock the boat, we're allowed some peace, but the moment we mention that this sort of exclusion isn't entirely fair we become targets.

I am not making any claim to the contrary.
Problem "some children cannot form healthy relationships with their peers or are very challenged in doing so, such that even when they are not actively bullied, they are persistently excluded and this places their health and happiness at risk"
Solution "teach these children skills so that they have the choice of integrating with their peers and a realistic chance of forming relationships necessary to their wellbeing"
It is not about whether or not someone is morally right or wrong to exclude someone they do not like. It is about the fact that most children need to form healthy relationships with their peers to avoid extreme risks to their health and wellbeing, and yet for want of skills that they can potentially learn, are unable to do so.

Instead of seeing this study as some kind of blame game, try for a moment to consider that it might be an atttempt to better the lives of people who are at risk of not forming relationships even when they want to and it is in their interests to do so.

Focussing on bullies will not help someone who wants a friend but is being excluded by everyone else, who, (as you have pointed out) have every right to choose to not associate with someone they do not like. The absence of bullying does not in itself meet the needs of such a child even if it can be achieved, and as you point out, other children have a right to not associate with that child if they find the child objectionable. This study offers a solution.


Firstly, your experience and preferences are not necessarily shared by every child in the situation the study looks at. Secondly, I do not see the relevance of your comments about pretending to be another person, unless you equate teaching a child to read and write, and to cross roads safely as requiring them to pretend to be another person. The study suggests teaching skills, and learning skills is an ordinary part of the formation of self, and not something sensibly construed as pretending to be someone else. I could not always read, and now I can. Am I pretending to be someone else when I use this skill? I do not think so.

As I clearly and plainly stated, there are two kinds of bullying. I made no claims about proportionality. Furthermore, I see no reason to accept your blithe assertion that it is necessarily the quiet and shy kids who are predominately bullied. I was bullied more than any of the quiet and shy people in any of my classes at school.


None of which contradicts anything I have said in this thread. In fact the only relevance here is that the study is suggesting that adults do not do blame children for their lack of social skills, but instead teach them the skills the need.

If you see "blame" in the study and/or its findings/suggestions, then I suggest this is not about the study. The study does not blame or mention blame or encourage blaming. I think this would be apparent to anyone who did not approach the study either with excessive defensiveness, or a "blame mentality" or both of these things.

Seeing this from a parent's point of view, I absolutely agree. My daughter isn't bullied as such. Her school is actually very good about putting a clampdown on that. But as you said earlier, the damage from being excluded- no matter how politely done- exceeds the damage from being bullied yet having a best friend. You can mandate that children be polite, well mannered and non-bullying to each other. What you can't mandate is having them want to spend time with any given child. The absence of that wanting is very painful for a sensitive child (mine). The article gives helpful advice on how to get other children to want to spend time with a particular child. It is, basically, how to make friends. The inability to make friends is its own kind of damage that continues even in the absence of bullying and in the presence of adult-mandated manners and respect.

To adress this, I have enrolled her in a social skills group that is not school affiliated and that puts her in contact with other autistic children (and non-autistic but still needing this training) who are not at her school. So now she has an outside group of children that she sees regularly and whose interactions are moderated by an adult whose only job is to guide all of them towards healthy relationships. This is already paying off. She is starting to bond with a girl in the group and all she talks about at home is this girl. Slowly, over time, I hope that she can forge enough of a bond with this girl, and maybe other kids too, to help off-set the damage from polite dismissal from mainstream peers. A best-case scenario is that she learns the skills to make at least one or 2 schoolkids want to spend time with her rather than only doing so when a teacher requires it.

Some people here may be happy islands and would resent such a thing being foisted on them. But my (autistic) daughter has no desire to be an island unto herself and hunker down in isolation. She just didn't know how to do otherwise.