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Leekduck
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19 Jul 2010, 4:20 am

i already call it 'aspergers autism' anyway, besides it would be good because then there will be less Wautistics claiming to have 'mild aspergers'



Followthereaper90
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19 Jul 2010, 5:02 am

Leekduck wrote:
i already call it 'aspergers autism' anyway, besides it would be good because then there will be less Wautistics claiming to have 'mild aspergers'
sorry nothing will chance they just move claiming they have mild autism :?


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Craig28
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19 Jul 2010, 5:06 am

Aspergers isn't worth fighting for, especially since NT's will never understand it anyway. Just live your life the way you want to live it, and not try to be an activist and get an identity.



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19 Jul 2010, 8:29 am

ColdBlooded wrote:
Side note: Is anyone sure what they mean by "unusual sensory behaviors"? Someone made a comment about sensory overload not being a "behavior," but when i first read it i was thinking more along the lines of doing behaviors that stimulate your senses(for example: sniffing things, seeking out deep pressure, rubbing certain fabrics excessively, etc..).. or even behaviors related to sensory sensitivities(such as only wearing certain clothing, covering ears, etc.). So, i think that's what they mean, but now i'm not sure.


If Behaviourists can study a dog salivating when a bell is rung, then my reaction of instant rage (expressed in fleeing, squirming, looking alarmed or distressed) when I hear someone eating or drinking counts as "behaviour".

Sensory sensitivity expresses itself in various types of behaviour, just as hunger expresses itself in eating. I wear earphones on the train, and sometimes headphones at work. I switch off the fluorescent lights in my office, because I find it too bright with them on (no one else does). I cringe when I hear loud squeaky noises (and notice that no one else is cringing). I am not particularly good at describing feelings, but I can describe my "sensory behaviours".

And they are definitely "unusual". For most of my life I kept silent about them, for fear of ridicule, and only came out of the closet when I discovered many other people on the Internet with the same problem.

Seeking sensations is also sensory behaviour: both approach and avoidance - if it is unusual - would count as unusual sensory behaviour.



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19 Jul 2010, 8:33 am

ColdBlooded wrote:
Side note: Is anyone sure what they mean by "unusual sensory behaviors"? Someone made a comment about sensory overload not being a "behavior," but when i first read it i was thinking more along the lines of doing behaviors that stimulate your senses(for example: sniffing things, seeking out deep pressure, rubbing certain fabrics excessively, etc..).. or even behaviors related to sensory sensitivities(such as only wearing certain clothing, covering ears, etc.). So, i think that's what they mean, but now i'm not sure.
Yeah, it's like that. The DSM, back in the 3rd edition, tried to move from subjective experiences to observable behaviors; so rather than saying, "Experiences sensory overload," they used a criterion that's observable--the behaviors of someone who is trying to seek out interesting sensations or avoid unpleasant ones, when those behaviors make it obvious that he has unusual sensory processing. Understanding what is meant in the DSM is easier if you have the full edition; there's more explanation there, and example case studies. If you wanted to read it (it's dry but necessary if you want to study psychology), it can be found at most libraries.

Craig28 wrote:
Aspergers isn't worth fighting for, especially since NT's will never understand it anyway. Just live your life the way you want to live it, and not try to be an activist and get an identity.
Except that being an activist isn't, and shouldn't be, tied to a label. Working for human rights for autistic people is important no matter what they're called. Nor should an identity be tied to a label. You know who you are, whatever term psychology uses to describe one aspect of you that you share with many others. Your identity isn't something external--or, at least, shouldn't be.


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19 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
stating you have autism will automatically generate one of two responses: "No way you're autistic, you can speak, and at least make some semblance of eye contact"


This is why that when I choose to disclose it to somebody, I do simply say that I have Autism. I love people's reactions, if anything it makes the people on the spectrum look better in general. It shows that it isn't always as bad, and that it varies.

Especially in my case, where the other day in a McDonalds inside Fail*Mart I struck up a conversation with a random stranger that lasted probably a good five minutes before my order was called and I decided that what was to be going into my mouth was of a higher priority than what was coming out. Obviously I wasn't going to disclose my diagnosis to a random stranger, but I just get a kick out of the idea of someone like myself who has AS but with much improved social skills.

However, it may not apply to you, but I'm just stating why I'm fine with it either way.


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azurecrayon
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19 Jul 2010, 12:26 pm

Callista wrote:
I suggest you focus on your son's exact issues--the specific traits--rather than saying "He needs this because of diagnosis X". The parents in my local AS/Autism group seem to have had a lot more luck when focusing on specific traits rather than diagnosis, whether their kid was diagnosed autism, Asperger's, or PDD-NOS.


i think you misread my post. we are not saying "he needs x because of diagnosis y". we are saying "he needs x because of behavior y". for instance, we wanted OT because of poor fine motor skills/hypotonia making him unable to write effectively. what the school comes back at us with is, hes too young to be dx aspergers and hes not autistic because he walked his fingers up the arm of the girl sitting next to him. so his age is being used to deny an aspergers dx, and his tactile sensory seeking behaviors are misinterpreted as "playing with other children" and being used to deny a classic autism dx; both of which result in a denial of benefits.

regardless of the specifics, my original point still stands to refute the OPs proposal that an aspergers diagnosis is better for children in school. in my experience, the AS dx has made things more difficult than a classic autism dx would have.

i think one major issue in this debate is the assumption that aspergers = high functioning. while on average aspergers dx leads to better outcomes and less functioning issues, it is not true for the individual in every situation. this false assumption leads to autistics not getting services when they need them and being expected to function at a level they are unable to function at. that includes at home, at school, and at work.

likewise, LFA does not always mean the person is low-functioning in all situations.

ideally, we will have everyone under a spectrum diagnosis where they are evaluated on an individual basis for strengths and weaknesses and given services on that information, and there are no assumptions about someones ability based on a diagnosis formed only on observational data.



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19 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm

Next, we'll be in concentration camps.


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azurecrayon
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19 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
It's pretty rare for someone with AS to go through life without assistance. Most don't work and live at home with their parents or in residential housing, and it stays the same way for most of their lives.


i dont know that thats accurate. those needing the most assistance will always be the first and most diagnosed. i tend to think that the majority of aspies are undiagnosed and are out there struggling through their lives as best they can. people like my SO and so many other adults on this board who were never diagnosed because the diagnosis didnt exist when they were at the age it usually happens. with the diagnosis being less than 20 years old, most aspies havent even gone through life yet. im sure a lot of them are out there just thinking they are, or the world is, crazy.



Craig28
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19 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm

Giftorcurse wrote:
Next, we'll be in concentration camps.


Then at least we wouldn't have to deal with the real world and typical NT madness.



Giftorcurse
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19 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm

Craig28 wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
Next, we'll be in concentration camps.


Then at least we wouldn't have to deal with the real world and typical NT madness.

Image
This kind.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jul 2010, 1:23 pm

This step will lead to better and more accurate filtering of the aspies populations by enforcing the position of the Autistics who call themselves aspies while kicking out the non-autistics who call themselves 'aspies'.



Callista
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19 Jul 2010, 3:54 pm

If by that you mean that we'll get better specificity... yes, I hope so. There are some kids who are being diagnosed Asperger's who don't need it because they don't actually need assistance; and some adults who are being diagnosed Asperger's who have some other issue instead.

Still, I don't think AS is overdiagnosed all that much. In the older population, it's heavily underdiagnosed.

What I hope most from this new set of criteria is that it won't be so limited to children only. The current set seem to assume that you'd only make this diagnosis in childhood; the new set seems to be more of an evaluation of where you are, and what you can do, right now as opposed to when you were three.

I think we'll have a general benefit with adult diagnosis. Now all that remains is to move it out of the "Childhood Disorders" category and put it in Axis 2 with the other long-term background conditions.


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Psygirl6
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21 Jul 2010, 1:04 pm

I also have a major problem with that "merge". Back when I first went to college, I had an autism diagnosis(they did not have Asperger's yet). As a result, I was put into remedial classes, even though I had extremely high placement scores and was told I could not do my medical career. This depressed me. Even though I finally got diagnosed with Asperger's, but I already left and was on disability. For 10 years I was put into a program with autistic people who were mentally ret*d and I was treated by the heads of this program like I was a stupid because I had an disability on the autism spectrum disorder list (Asperger's). I was socially isolated because I was the only one who had Asperger's. Even the people who were the higher functioning classic autistic had trouble talking with me because they did not have the understanding of the type of conversations that I would want. I always socialized with the staff because I could have such mature conversations with them and they understood them. I was put into jobs that were very below my capability. I wanted something in the medical and I was told they could not provide that because the "type" of clientele they typically serve do not possess that capability. So I got stuck in jobs picking up trash and recyclables at a local college, working in a factory putting things in bags, and yet, these jobs were like 2 cents a piece, not minimum wage or a real paycheck. Yet, because I was the "highest" functioning one, the only one without retardation, I was penalized if I told staff when another client would bully or harass me. I felt ashamed and still do because of my Asperger's because of what I had to be put up with. Now that they finally differenced Asperger's from autism, I was able to have my medical career and go back to school. Now, since I left and go to college, people are starting to see Asperger's as a gift and so am I. This Asperger's being somewhat different from Autism had made my teachers and the staff at my program wake up and see that I should have never been in such a program and because of that I am able to better my life. Now, with this "merger" many people with Asperger's would get put into such horrible programs. I know people may like this merger, but don't be fooled. You too will get treated like crap.



capriwim
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21 Jul 2010, 1:39 pm

I personally don't have any sense of 'Aspie identity'. I am who I am, and each person with Aspergers is different, as is each person with classic autism. I describe myself as 'on the autistic spectrum' just as often as I describe myself as having Aspergers. The particular 'Aspie' traits I have don't seem to me to be specific to Aspergers - they seem to stem from particular neurological differences that all people on the autistic spectrum have in common, and which manifest in different ways in different people. When I read Temple Grandin's books, or Donna Williams' books, they seem very similar to me, even though their classification is 'autism' and mine is 'Aspergers'.

I don't like the 'them and us' mentality that the Asperger label can foster. And from what I understand, its distinguishing factors from classsic autism are tenuous and not even agreed upon. Some say that it's about whether there's language delay or not - but then, when you're an adult, the age at which you developed language becomes irrelevant. Besides, language development can depend on all kinds of environmental factors. Others say the difference is in IQ, but then you can argue that some people on the spectrum could have a very high IQ but simply not understand the context of the IQ test, or why they have to do it. And the IQ test is no longer seen as the definitive way of determining intelligence anyway.

I'm reading Temple Grandin's book The Way I See It at the moment, and she talks about how when autistic people are non-verbal, it's generally not an issue of intelligence, but an issue of sensory integration, particularly with visual and auditory perception.


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21 Jul 2010, 2:11 pm

Psygirl6 wrote:
I also have a major problem with that "merge". Back when I first went to college, I had an autism diagnosis(they did not have Asperger's yet). As a result, I was put into remedial classes, even though I had extremely high placement scores and was told I could not do my medical career. This depressed me. Even though I finally got diagnosed with Asperger's, but I already left and was on disability. For 10 years I was put into a program with autistic people who were mentally ret*d and I was treated by the heads of this program like I was a stupid because I had an disability on the autism spectrum disorder list (Asperger's). I was socially isolated because I was the only one who had Asperger's. Even the people who were the higher functioning classic autistic had trouble talking with me because they did not have the understanding of the type of conversations that I would want. I always socialized with the staff because I could have such mature conversations with them and they understood them. I was put into jobs that were very below my capability. I wanted something in the medical and I was told they could not provide that because the "type" of clientele they typically serve do not possess that capability. So I got stuck in jobs picking up trash and recyclables at a local college, working in a factory putting things in bags, and yet, these jobs were like 2 cents a piece, not minimum wage or a real paycheck. Yet, because I was the "highest" functioning one, the only one without retardation, I was penalized if I told staff when another client would bully or harass me. I felt ashamed and still do because of my Asperger's because of what I had to be put up with. Now that they finally differenced Asperger's from autism, I was able to have my medical career and go back to school. Now, since I left and go to college, people are starting to see Asperger's as a gift and so am I. This Asperger's being somewhat different from Autism had made my teachers and the staff at my program wake up and see that I should have never been in such a program and because of that I am able to better my life. Now, with this "merger" many people with Asperger's would get put into such horrible programs. I know people may like this merger, but don't be fooled. You too will get treated like crap.


The thing is, the difference you bring out, it's not part of the diagnostic criteria. Maybe there should be such a diagnostic distinction. But right now, officially, there isn't.


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