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swbluto
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04 May 2011, 5:16 pm

Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:



Last edited by swbluto on 04 May 2011, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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04 May 2011, 5:20 pm

swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many on those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


How is this a NT thing to do?


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swbluto
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04 May 2011, 5:25 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many on those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


How is this a NT thing to do?


Because NTs are more strongly relationally defined and the corresponding expressions of those relations are more pronounced and visible. Of course, the same could also exist in the AS community, but it's far less pronounced.

Thus, the positive/negative social feedback mechanism is more "NT" than anything else in its origin. This mechanism is used primarily for maintaining the "herd mentality" which is definitely NT in origin.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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04 May 2011, 5:44 pm

swbluto wrote:

Because NTs are more strongly relationally defined and the corresponding expressions of those relations are more pronounced and visible. Of course, the same could also exist in the AS community, but it's far less pronounced.

Thus, the positive/negative social feedback mechanism is more "NT" than anything else in its origin. This mechanism is used primarily for maintaining the "herd mentality" which is definitely NT in origin.


Eh... it's more a logic based practice than anything else. NT or not, we all have to interact with the world around us. It only makes sense to point out positives so as to keep our interactions as positive as possible.


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swbluto
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04 May 2011, 5:54 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
swbluto wrote:

Because NTs are more strongly relationally defined and the corresponding expressions of those relations are more pronounced and visible. Of course, the same could also exist in the AS community, but it's far less pronounced.

Thus, the positive/negative social feedback mechanism is more "NT" than anything else in its origin. This mechanism is used primarily for maintaining the "herd mentality" which is definitely NT in origin.


Eh... it's more a logic based practice than anything else. NT or not, we all have to interact with the world around us. It only makes sense to point out positives so as to keep our interactions as positive as possible.


That's fairly logical, but what's "positive" is inherently subjective and that subjectiveness usually aligns with what agrees with the subjective sensibilities of the masses. Thus, the "herd mentality" that pervades most NT's thinking stains the concept of social feedback with its NT-ness.

There could be subjective sensibilities common to the majority of AS folk, I suppose, but it seems more fractured and discouragement/encouragement seems far less intensified (With the exception of the NTs among us.).



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04 May 2011, 5:55 pm

swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


I would hardly describe myself as a 'collective'.

I have preferences about how I'm treated. If I don't tell people, how can they know? It's really simple, and nothing to do with collectivism, and shunning individual behaviours. I'm a highly individual person, and I appreciate individual qualities in others.

It's 'NT' in so much as you don't have to tell an NT the benefits of attempting to create good relations with others. They just know.

If anything, I don't practice what I preach enough.


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04 May 2011, 5:58 pm

swbluto wrote:
what's "positive" is inherently subjective


That's why it's important to treat people as individuals, and not herd them all into a couple of categories.


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04 May 2011, 5:58 pm

swbluto wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
swbluto wrote:

Because NTs are more strongly relationally defined and the corresponding expressions of those relations are more pronounced and visible. Of course, the same could also exist in the AS community, but it's far less pronounced.

Thus, the positive/negative social feedback mechanism is more "NT" than anything else in its origin. This mechanism is used primarily for maintaining the "herd mentality" which is definitely NT in origin.


Eh... it's more a logic based practice than anything else. NT or not, we all have to interact with the world around us. It only makes sense to point out positives so as to keep our interactions as positive as possible.


That's fairly logical, but what's "positive" is inherently subjective and that subjectiveness usually aligns with what agrees with the subjective sensibilities of the masses. Thus, the "herd mentality" that pervades most NT's thinking stains the concept of social feedback with its NT-ness.

There could be subjective sensibilities common to the majority of AS folk, I suppose, but it seems more fractured and discouragement/encouragement seems far less intensified (With the exception of the NTs among us.).


You seem rather fixated on this 'collective' thinking. It hasn't been my experience that this is the case at all. Not even among the NT population. People compliment what they find pleasant. If someone or something doesn't align with their personal sense of self, they don't generally interact with the person or object outside of necessity.


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04 May 2011, 6:04 pm

draelynn wrote:
Hey, I got my first 'arrogant' and 'immature'. Does that put me in the 'popular' clique or am I back in the geek clique?

Wow, I haven't even thought about that since 10th grade...

I'm just curious who everyone thinks is popular. Is it just the people who happily schmooze among themselves? Is it the people who come on strong and opinionated in every thread with some substance? Is it the 'without researched and linked facts your opinion means SQUAT' crowd? There's a fair share of rabble rousers too... you know who you are! (Rabbles need rousing every now and then too...) In general, I just see groups of like minded people finding each other. I haven't actually been told to bugger off by anyone yet - I'm sure that'll happen at some point but not yet. I'm pretty sure that internet forum popularity doesn't get you anything other, than maybe some narcissitic, imagined pleasure. It's just a bit of ego masturbation really.

I'm more drawn to the quiet ones. Most of the time, their the ones that have something to say that I actually want to hear.


Everyone seems to have a different idea on what constitutes popularity, and based on that draw different conclusions on who is popular here.

Personally, I'm here to interact with people I have a better time relating to. I don't understand why anyone really wants a popularity contest. :shrug:


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04 May 2011, 6:09 pm

Moog wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


I would hardly describe myself as a 'collective'.


No one raindrop thinks it caused the flood.

We might love to romanticize our existence as individualistic, but we all belong to the collective that characterizes humanity, and we all belong to various subgroups that shares our way of thinking, interests and sensibilities. It's a pity that not all of us finds one of the groups they naturally belong to in life.



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04 May 2011, 6:18 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
swbluto wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
swbluto wrote:

Because NTs are more strongly relationally defined and the corresponding expressions of those relations are more pronounced and visible. Of course, the same could also exist in the AS community, but it's far less pronounced.

Thus, the positive/negative social feedback mechanism is more "NT" than anything else in its origin. This mechanism is used primarily for maintaining the "herd mentality" which is definitely NT in origin.


Eh... it's more a logic based practice than anything else. NT or not, we all have to interact with the world around us. It only makes sense to point out positives so as to keep our interactions as positive as possible.


That's fairly logical, but what's "positive" is inherently subjective and that subjectiveness usually aligns with what agrees with the subjective sensibilities of the masses. Thus, the "herd mentality" that pervades most NT's thinking stains the concept of social feedback with its NT-ness.

There could be subjective sensibilities common to the majority of AS folk, I suppose, but it seems more fractured and discouragement/encouragement seems far less intensified (With the exception of the NTs among us.).


You seem rather fixated on this 'collective' thinking. It hasn't been my experience that this is the case at all. Not even among the NT population. People compliment what they find pleasant. If someone or something doesn't align with their personal sense of self, they don't generally interact with the person or object outside of necessity.


Oh dear, you've never experienced the wrath of the collective to know of its existence like many aspies have been intimately familiarized with, have you? "The collective" doesn't necessarily mean every single person, just the vast majority. And there are other subgroups within the collective, that have their own appreciation of certain ways of thinking, beliefs and/or expression. I'm sure it is the previous divisions and subgroups within the collective that you're thinking of that makes you think it doesn't exist. Well, it does. Ask any aspie!



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04 May 2011, 6:18 pm

swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


I'm totally confused. Isn't WP, first and foremost, a support forum? And, as a support forum, isn't positive feedback the standard method of operation? A member is happy they finally got a job and other members jump in and congratulate them, while others may ask for details and maybe even tips. That's positive feedback feeding a positive behavior. A member writes that they want to commit suicide - other members jump in to discourage it because collectively, suicide is deemed undesirable. The logic certainly applies but I'm not sure it has much to do with being popular or not.

I think maybe your layers of social heirarchy may be a bit broader than originally surmised.



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04 May 2011, 6:27 pm

swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


I would hardly describe myself as a 'collective'.


No one raindrop thinks it caused the flood.

We might love to romanticize our existence as individualistic, but we all belong to the collective that characterizes humanity, and we all belong to various subgroups that shares our way of thinking, interests and sensibilities. It's a pity that not all of us finds one of the groups they naturally belong to in life.


I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Whether that's deliberate misunderstanding is unclear.

I wasn't saying I'm independent of the social matrix. I'm not stupid. I simply have an individualistic bent.

What I was saying is that we DO exist in a social matrix, so it makes sense to attempt to take some responsibility for how we relate to the groups and individuals within it for mine and their benefit. How does that make me some kind of 'flood'? I call it rational

If you're having problems finding your group, it might be that you can learn to do the same, instead of chiding others who do. Holding onto your previous experiences with bitterness will only keep you back.


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Last edited by Moog on 04 May 2011, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 May 2011, 6:34 pm

swbluto wrote:
It's a pity that not all of us finds one of the groups they naturally belong to in life.


Is there a group for rogue males? Once ejected from the pack by dominant peers, where do they go? Look to another group? After multiple failings, do they give up looking?

Do they sit at a distance and watch the herd? Waiting for an opportunity to sly mate with a stray female/male when the alpha male/female is too shagged to be watching?

Or join a rag tag group of other rejects? Who howl over the airwaves and interweb like a distant lone wolf....communicating at a distance, in fear that closeness will drive them apart, once again forever lonely and searching once again for ones 'natural group'....

Is not naturally belonging to a group, unnatural? Is natural a constant or does it change in time?



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04 May 2011, 6:35 pm

draelynn wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Moog wrote:
Surfman wrote:
People THINK they want to be popular, but they MAY do little to achieve that end.

People who ACTIVELY TRY to be popular massage others ego's, comment positively toward others higher up the food chain.....MAKE SUBMISSIVE CHIRPING SOUNDS to be permitted to enter the inner circle.....


You don't have to be submissive in order to pay someone a compliment or show visible appretiation for what they do. Some of us genuinely enjoy making others feel good by giving them feedback when they please us. It also helps them know what pleases us, leading into positive feedback loops.


Oh yes, the NT-esque social feedback loops are ever-present. Positive feedback loops encourage the proliferation of behaviors/thinking most encouraged by the collective, while negative feedback loops likewise discourage it, thereby maximizing the expression of given members where collectively deemed to be beneficial and minimized where collectively deemed undesirable. Many of those whom are benefited by it support it, while many of those who are detrimented by it complain about it. I think I can tell who's on the top and bottom of this site's social hierarchy. :lol:


I'm totally confused. Isn't WP, first and foremost, a support forum? And, as a support forum, isn't positive feedback the standard method of operation? A member is happy they finally got a job and other members jump in and congratulate them, while others may ask for details and maybe even tips. That's positive feedback feeding a positive behavior. A member writes that they want to commit suicide - other members jump in to discourage it because collectively, suicide is deemed undesirable. The logic certainly applies but I'm not sure it has much to do with being popular or not.

I think maybe your layers of social heirarchy may be a bit broader than originally surmised.


Not all forms of "positive" and "negative" feedback are directly related to ones social positioning within the hierarchy. But, yes, positive and negative feedback are intrinsically necessary for indicating or changing ones position within it. That is, not all feedback directly relates to social positioning, but some of it is and social-positioning related social feedback certainly exists. Is it clearer now?



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04 May 2011, 6:40 pm

Surfman wrote:
swbluto wrote:
It's a pity that not all of us finds one of the groups they naturally belong to in life.


Is there a group for rogue males? Once ejected from the pack by dominant peers, where do they go? Look to another group? After multiple failings, do they give up looking?

Do they sit at a distance and watch the herd? Waiting for an opportunity to sly mate with a stray female/male when the alpha male/female is too shagged to be watching?

Or join a rag tag group of other rejects? Who howl over the airwaves and interweb like a distant lone wolf....communicating at a distance, in fear that closeness will drive them apart, once again forever lonely and searching once again for ones 'natural group'....

Is not naturally belonging to a group, unnatural? Is natural a constant or does it change in time?


:lol: (I especially lol'd at the third paragraph that seems to characterize at least half of Wrong Planet.)

"True lone wolves" might be forever lonely. Who knows whether they 'really exist' or if they just simply have never found their 'natural group'...