How dare they discriminate against Aspergers?

Post Reply New Topic

I have recently heard the "every person has a right to", but I don't understand, where is it all to come from?

As far as people deserving because their PARENTS paid taxes, well, I started work when I was 16, have had dozens upon dozens of jobs that I can stand for a while, then it all "gets" to me, and have paid into the system MYSELF, and I didn't get squat. (unless you count the multiple humiliations, testing with sub standard mental health pros, and a lot of wasted time and crushed hopes).

What is wrong with the this country IS the "every person deserves" but they expect someone else to get it for them.

SERIOUSLY, WHERE IS IT SUPPOSED TO COME FROM??????? People behave as if the government has unlimited funds that come from some magic fairy place.
Sometimes difficulties are the best thing, when looking for the easy way out.
That is how is turned out for me, and I am grateful for every hellish year of my life.

well not everyone is so lucky.

The easy way out would be working for the degree I could easily obtain if I didn't have so much neurological crap going on that it's nearly impossible for me to stay in college for a full two semesters, and then getting a job appropriate to my education so I could at least achieve the things I always wanted to achieve.

Struggling for 20 years to get an education and find a career, staving off homelessness primarily because of my family's willingness to provide a safety net, barely earning enough money to even count as an income only a few times in that period before learning that the deck was stacked against me all along. Then spending a year or more going through the SSI process while having to basically abase myself only to get turned down twice so far (and I started the process nearly six months ago, and am waiting for my hearing date). I have never managed to live independently, and whenever I've come close all of my affairs have disintegrated. I've never learned how to drive. I dropped out of high school, dropped out of college three times. I've had three jobs since 1990 and was self-employed once, but took on so much work (no more than other - neurotypical - freelancers) that I ultimately burned out and haven't been able to do anything since. I have never been hired for a job I interviewed for, and I interviewed for jobs fairly consistently from 1995 until 2004, and had major depression from 1996 until last December because of those repeated failures. After my burnout in 2004, in combination with my depression, everything has become more difficult.

So please tell me how this is the easy way out would you?

I did not relate this because I want pity or want anyone to feel sorry for me - I don't care about that. I want to understand what it is exactly that is "easy" about finally resorting to SSI after all other avenues have failed. Could you please tell me what that is? I never wanted anything more than to be able to achieve a few life goals, and those are as out of reach now as they were when I realized how out of reach they were and the depression settled in. Do you think it is a walk in the park to get stuck and not have a way out? Do you think it is the easy way out to apply for a social program that mandates poverty?

And what is it that people who apply for SSI want? How about food, clothing, shelter - they want to satisfy the basic needs we all have, right? How is the desire to not starve to death, to have clothing to wear, to have a place to live, to have access to medical care any kind of entitlement? In what world do you live in where people who are driven to resort to this because they have no other options, who have tried everything else, are looking for the easy way out? Are you living in the real world or some kind of libertarian fantasyland?

I'd expect the next reply to go along the lines of "the people that feel entitled" and "where is it supposed to come from". Then the people that pay the taxes the person who is covered by the insurance is supposed to be the problem of societies and others feel to be the victim of the "people that give the free stuff". The guilt trips to keep silent and the guilt trips to feel like a horrible person who is just lazy don't work on me. People like me are stereotyped, taught to feel ashamed, if we are to explain why it's just excuses and that everyone has a hard time.

Well I am here to say let me at em. I've got the solution while those who demean, shallow think in my and others regard and feel the victim of myself and others because they work so very hard and I get to be the "lazy person" just don't want to constructively think. Sure I'll debate the likes of them but I am not embarrassed, ashamed or diluted by the idea that simply trying will make me in their eyes not lazy. The shame game doesn't work so when them folks want to help instead of cause more problems and be disrespectful I will talk sensibly to them. I however will not live a sub-par life, have more limited options and be under the threat of homelessness by political fanatics without my fighting back.

My rights and others are limited simply because I cost others money and at no choice of my own.

1. I cannot save just in case the people that define and function the mainstream cannot run the country properly and it's economics falters.

2. When reaching to safe guard myself and become less dependent on the "system" I am not allowed to in the ways that I am able because of system rules.

3. When folks as a whole begin to appreciate by fully realizing the diversity which comprises our country as well as others you will find that disability can coexist better and that some conditions won't even manifest least in the same way. The human right to be included does not mean one will be included. So a transition should take place but in the economic survival of the fittest the needed transition would likely be threatening to others. Such as why does he or she get to be placed in a job when others don't get that kind of pampered treatment.

When this topic and it's entire complexity can be respectfully, constructively and maturely in a societal evolutionary sense be truly undertaken is when changes will happen. Until then like a horse fly is to a horse sometimes there will be smell and other-times with a good laugh the social stall which we all reside will be fresh and clean. Humans are like one big family but folks find themselves to easily divided and as a result unable as a whole to most effectively become more prosperous and stable.

Stop studying how to create conflict and start studying human nature and the fuzzy thoughts that many times seem like simplex nonsense.

Nathan Young

I do think you are over-reacting somewhat. It could be said equally, how dare you demand that you have the pension just because of AS - works both ways. And as someone else indicated, these people set rather clever questions (like the one about Facebook) and of course if you gave the answer that they weren't looking for, that's not your fault either!

I have AS and could work at a computer or some place that there wasn't a crowd. I receive ESA and DLA (partly for another separate medical condition). Recently I was asked (twice) to apply for Severe Disability Allowance which I declined. That's because I believe I receive the right amount of help and don't want to have a slice of someone else's pie.

I expect you can challenge/appeal the decision and good luck with that but I think it's a false dawn if we imagine that an autism-related condition automatically wins us rights or awards.

Look at the ASAN president. He attends college, is very social and seems to function very well in the mainstream. People like him should not get free money. Some of this has to do with personal ethics and sometimes not. People that honestly try to work and adapt vs. those that believe they should not have to from the get go because of a label. There are those that honestly try and fail believing they can achieve and those that have believed they can never. I was one of those that believed I could achieve anything and little made me think otherwise. At an early age I had no other choice but disability and I never let that stop me from trying to achieve or believing that somehow or someway there was a way, a possibility and eventual hope that I would.

A Disability Workers Union is what is need to unite and empower disabled people and give them representation and give them hope for the future. Disabled people on their own have no chance against scum bag employers but it is good to have someone standing up for you.

It sickens me that disabled people are paid lower rates of pay according to their capacity to work. You do the exact same job as a normal person, you should be paid the same amount. So what the disabled people are slow at their jobs. The pay rates offered by exploitive employers to disabled workers is much lower than the legal minimum wages. More incentive needs to be offered by the employers to get disabled people back into the workforce.

Sorry if I missed the answers to my questions, I did skim the responses, but might have missed them.

My comments were in no way supposed to make anyone feel guilty or a burden. I never said that there are some people who need assistance. What I am saying is that I am 54 years old, have had the hard times, the meltdowns, the can't get through more than a coupleof years at a job, or more than three semesters at school before complete meltdowns that cause months of me being a mess. What I am saying is, it never even occurred to me to try and get disability until my late forties, because, heck a pattern was there, and I was terrified of ending up homeless (you can only blame situations, jobs, neighbors, friends, husbands, co-workers so long before I had to face the fact that the only constant in every messed up situation was ME).
Bad medications, worse therapists, long suicidal periods, IT SUCKED, no hope, enough attempts and failures to make me sure there was no reason to hope, hell, I have made crazy moves to other states trying to find a place to fit in, or live cheap enough that the rat race wasn't a requirement.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS FOR ME IT WAS A BLESSING THAT DISABILITY DID NOT COME THROUGH AND THAT I AGAIN, AS ALWAYS, KNEW IT WAS ALL UP TO ME TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF.
There has never been a period in the history of human beings when there weren't vast numbers of people living in horrible conditions. This world is not a theme park, this world is a rough place, there are people in parts of the world that have it a thousand times worse than most if not all on these forums.


So, simple answers please, WHERE IS IT SUPPOSED TO COME FROM???????????????? Who decides what is bad enough or not bad enough to deserve a lifetime of financial support? There are people both deaf and blind who work, I can't imagine how hard that could be. There are people who can't get medical help for their dying children, there are crack heads selling their children, there ARE COUNTLESS WORSE SITUATIONS THAN WHAT SOME PEOPLE PISS AND MOAN ABOUT

THE WORLD IS NOT FAIR, NEVER HAS BEEN FAIR, NEVER WILL BE FAIR, OTHERWISE THE GOD AWFUL THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO LITTLE TINY CHILDREN WOULD NOT HAPPEN. Count your assets and abilities not so that you won't be a burden, but so you CAN LIVE A LIFE YOU VALUE.

Life is suffering (it's a given)

That's a public relations challenge of fair wage which is a reasonable balance to be undertaken. Right now I pay individuals that work with me and whom have a developmental disability such as autism $8.00 an hour and I make nothing. My hope is $9.00 - $12.00 an hour as it continues to grow and evolve to new industries. I own the AutismCandles.com for instance and I need to purchase $8,000.00 in simi-robotics equipment first and a professional is to be the director of the day employment center being setup and functioned by the organization I started. I am to retain the director of public relations position.

Another solution is area wide inclusion campaigns. I am currently formulating a streamlined model where I live. Utilizing social theory, seasoned voice talent and a type of offline viral marketing brandology approach to inclusion. There is a book being written but not everything is complete for it to be finished.

Incentives to employers are another thing that is paid for by tax dollars, not something employers shell out. Businesses are in the business of staying in business. There are lots of incentives to employers to give jobs to those on probation or out of prison.

Where can I find information about disabled workers receiving a lower rate of pay for equal work? I would like to fire off a nasty email or two about that.

Well I mostly agree at least with the part about life being suffering, unfair and mostly quite grim, but I if I have no enjoyment........then there really would be no point to my life, so I would be likely to become suicidal. That being said I decided I do not want to appeal the decision to reject my SSI application because don't have the energy especially since I will be starting my next semester of college soon.....and will probably have to at least try to get a job which will last for a short amount of time before I get fired for being too 'slow'. I mean I am going to college so I don't go insane from doing nothing and so I can afford to have some things I enjoy with the financial aid/loan money left over after the tuition is covered. There is practically no job market and then I have issues that interfere with work so that cuts those already low chances even lower, I really don't know how I will continue to sustain myself but I guess I'll find out.

If by federal law an individuals is deemed substantially disabled that's where it comes from if found before the age of 21 or 22. For individuals not covered by their parents taxes and not found disabled before a young age they are at more risk for system failure and a lack of coverage.

As for the world is no fair that's when you got to find smart ways to balance it out. Just as mean as it can be another can be just as constructively tactful for the good. The idea that a great greedy evil always wins is an anti-idealistic mind construct and one that only knows defeatism.

I think it would be unfair for a small to medium business struggling to survive to be obliged to hire a quota of disabled people if it only means the company can't operate at the capacity it wants to and may face closure in the long term due to lack of competitiveness.

Where more disabled people can be hired is in large-mega corporations, the government sector and education sector. The problem with education and government is both sectors are going through a corporatisation process worldwide where the workforce is being put under stringent private sector Quality Assurance best practice. What needs to be done is allocate a quota proportional to the % of disabled people in the population. For instance I worked in a University faculty that had no provision for wheelchair access in a 5 floor building (including no lifts except a service lift for removalists). When I inquired why this was, I was told they had never had a staff or student was was in a wheelchair. How stupid. The year I left they had a blind student enrol and the education committee was at this girl's mercy. She advised the committee she did not require a lift otherwise the faculty would have to fork out the money, something they didn't want to do. I think it's mean spirited.

That there are worse situations is not relevant. I would in fact argue that people in those situations need assistance as well.

As for where it's supposed to come from? The government collects taxes for a reason. That's where it already comes from.

As for deaf and blind people who work - sure. Some autistic people are also deaf and/or blind as well, so there's an intersection there, you don't have three discrete groups. But there are also autistic people who work. The only number I could find for employment figures is that 70% of blind people were unemployed in 2008. in 2008, 90% of deaf people were unemployed. The unemployment rate for autistic adults seems to be around 90% or so. Your example, therefore, makes little sense as autistic peoploe and deaf people are unemployed in similar percentages and blind people appear to to have somewhat better chances in the workplace, but not so much that it really makes sense to hold them up as exemplars of employment despite the odds in comparison to autistic people.

I am not sure why you think that being on benefits means living a life that you wouldn't value. I hope I didn't give the impression in my answer (that was apparently wasted on you, since you didn't bother to read it) that I consider myself to be living a life that I don't value. I actually value my life pretty highly. I've just come out of years of suicidal depression - and I don't know how long that will last, and I actually really like being alive.

But I don't see what the argument you're presenting is:

* You introduce examples of other disabled people who do not actually have significantly higher employment rates than autistic people.

* You offer the irrelevant argument that there are people who have it worse off than we do. Honestly, I am a pretty thin line from having it significantly worse than I do now, but that's beside the point.

* I don't recall anyone saying the world had to be fair, but I would certainly argue that an ideal to aspire toward is to attempt to make the world more fair than it currently is. Just because things are horrible for a lot of people does not mean it is required to be that way. How society is constituted is not an immutable law of nature, but simply how society has evolved - an evolution that can only happen with the intervention of human beings because without humans, there are no societies. Thus, if human intervention can produce a society where life is hellish for a significant number of people, human intervention can produce a society where life is significantly less hellish for those people.

* I would never argue that people who are worse off than I am do not deserve assistance just because I need it myself, but my needs are not dependent upon the relative quality of life of other people. No one's needs are, really. Everyone has the same needs. That's the entire point of Maslow's Hierarchy - to show how needs are prioritized.

Your argument makes little sense to me, all of your points strike me as irrelevant. What exactly is it you are trying to argue?

Forcing anyone to do something against their will really is bad. That is why taxes are unpopular. The solution apart from forcing is public relations and transitional skills development in context to autism and other developmental disabilities.

My argument is simply to concentrate on what is good, on what abilities one has, and do all you can with what you have.

I stand by my comment, that people that can post on forums have skills, and can work.