Naivety and being on the spectrum

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Well, that's a good point you had. I didn't read your post in its entirety before posting, so I guess the fact that I incidentally echo'd your observation means I agree with you.

Last edited by swbluto on 30 Nov 2011, 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oh, then I misread you as saying the opposite? Been known to happen.

Well, you might not have, as I did say that it's possible to not be naive to something's existence, but it's possible to appear/act naive in practice which isn't necessarily the same as "to be naive"(Depending on your definition of "to be" and appear/act). If appearing naive is the same, in your understanding, as 'being' naive, then I suppose we agree. If not, then I suppose we disagree. But it's such a minor semantic difference that I don't think it needs to be addressed.

While the reason I'll call myself naive is that while I know that someone could theoretically lie, not having the understanding about it doesn't just make me assume they have a good reason for doing so, it makes me assume they're not lying unless there's an inconsistency with known information. In that case I assume they have a good reason for it.

swbluto, the reason I call myself naive is because while I know these types of things I don't understand it and naivety isn't about knowing its about understanding. I know I don't understand these things because I've been hurt badly by them before (and that let me see that I didn't understand them), yet I still don't understand them. I'm also pretty sure there are other things I'm just oblivious about that haven't came up and don't know what they are.

However as a whole I agree that its a small difference and am trying to prevent myself from doing the silly arguing over small semantics but have a huge problem with it.

Yes and these parents underestimate their kids and often use their own children to garnish sympathy for themselves. Do you honestly expect NT's to be honest about times they were actually scammed when I see alot of NT's having difficulty admitting to times they were wrong?

For me because I appear naive, I've gotten alot of people trying to take advantage of me. They also underestimate me and think the same emotional tugging would work on me but it does not.

If it takes more effort to scam NT's, show proof. What I have noticed is when it comes to people scamming NT's, they can pour on the charm and the smile NT's adore. Add that with tugging on emotional strings and using that method it would actually be easier to scam someone who is more prone to falling for that method.

Also, provide evidence that aspies just pour out so much of their money on scams when most of us don't even HAVE that kind of money in the first place.
I am also frugal. I don't spend money on luxury items and I don't give money to people who I suspect are scammers. I question them and in return I get called cold, a b***h or meanspirited and then the nearest NT listening to my questions and observing how the person's story doesn't add up says "Oh here you go...not all of us are...selfish!"

Not all NT's fall for scams but they will keep their mouth shut if questioning would make them appear cold and heartless.

Here is proof that NT's do in fact pour lots of money into scams and why is there this immunity shield for NT's as if they are all knowing of social cues and totally in the know, not gullible and can never fall for anything when last I've checked, most of the people that do in fact fall for scams and even cults that end their life or a cult to kill others or fall prey to serial killers are not considered autistic.

Proof-

(None of these people are autistic)

http://www.pureintimacy.org/piArticles/A000000433.cfm

"Bundy, a good-looking, intelligent law student, learned to women into his car by various forms of deception. He would put a cast on his arm or leg, then walk across a university campus carrying several books. When he saw an interesting coed standing or walking alone, he’d “accidentally” drop the books near her. The girl would help him gather them and take them to his car. Then he would entice her or push her into the vehicle where she was taken captive.

(my own thought. Notice how these women were tricked using the emotional strings? Do you think Ted would have been able to lure someone back to his car if they questioned his motives? I'm not sure about all autistics as I can just speak for myself but I've grown a big lack of trust with strangers and the majority of people who tug on emotions or try to. I'm not a social guru but after going through alot of battles with people who have done some really mean things, I've developed a sense that I've noticed alot of non-autistics actually lack. Yet people like to claim they are so socially smart and aspies are just social dum-dums all around and NT's just pick up on every little social cue and are so smart socially! There is so much proof that states otherwise. They just don't like admitting when they were wrong and then come up with some other excuse to keep up with this social immunity facade.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnSV4Gconyo[/youtube]

The elderly are targeted the most. If one group is targeted the most, naturally there will be more success. NT's are not social gurus that can read all signs. Society just likes to stereotype people and place us under a category of vulnerable and guess who is watching the news along with everyone else? Scam artists! What the scammers are getting out of these programs are, Oh...okay target the elderly, target those with disabilities but that also doesn't stop them from targeting everyone else.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEVUKCrHuVA[/youtube]



Two million Brits scammed within a year.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5vIaQ0VJM[/youtube]

NT's hold higher paying jobs than most Autistics. There is a high unemployment rate with autistics. Even if you get a disability check, that isn't much! If you were a scammer, would you target someone with money or someone without?

The reason why the elderly are targeted alot is because they are old, thought of as senile and have retired with money.

NT's are not scam proof and do fall for scams. If it's an emotional scam where sad stories are the basis of the scam, they will outcast and talk down to anyone who questions the parts of the stories that don't add up.

Rather admit they were scammed, they just say "Oh I don't care really!" That leaves them open for even more scamming.

Please stop acting as though NT's are social gurus always because if that were the case then why do NT's not always pick up on when their advances are not welcomed and even cry when they thought a romantic interest liked them back but it turned out, the romantic interest liked their best friend?

We're here with the limitations, some we're born with but doesn't mean you can't learn your way through it and then some limitations placed there because of stereotypes as if you are forever shoved into that category no matter what you do to actually prove yourself. I'm here to fight these limitations. I have been fighting and winning through learning about people, observation and even being thrown out for calling out unsavory people because the unsavory ones were more socially charming. Sometimes not even getting an apology after the charming unsavory person stole and lied to the person.

As an an analytical and cynical aspie, I think when it comes to people that are fake in some way, I fare better off than alot of people who were told all their lives about their advanced social cues which actually feeds their ego and prompts less desire to test that theory.

If someone obeys the "Don't question authority" "Don't question or it's not nice" rules vs. "Question authority" "Question anything that doesn't seem right" who do you think will fall for more scams?


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1vW9cIlnVI[/youtube]


Cult scams...

Jim Jones. "Don't question authority" He was the authority. He humiliated and beat his followers. They ended up dead...Jonestown. Were these people autistic?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7IxGGfpSWk[/youtube]

And...if you belong on any dating sites, here is a huge list of scammers and the fake pictures they use.

http://www.romancescam.com/album/

Follow these guidelines.

1. If someone scams and another person tells you they think the person is a scammer, do not throw a hissy fit towards the person who is warning you. Chances are, if someone is asking for money online, it is a scam.

2. If on a dating site, do not send money. If the person asks for money decline. If the person genuinely likes you, money is not the number one issue on their mind.

You are not obliged to give money to frauds or be made to look bad or feel bad. The shame should be on them...not you.

One of my aspie friends who calls people dumb asses when they fall for scams. he does not fall for any and he gets mad if someone sends him a chain letter or emails him a scam and he Takes it so personal. I keep telling him it's random and I doubt they were targeting him so it's not like they saw his email address or his home address and thought "Oh here is Chris, he has autism so I bet he will fall for our scam, let's go after his money." I doubt it. Instead I bet people are just picking out random addresses and random emails and sending it to them hoping any of them will fall for it. I have told him to just throw the chain letter away, just delete the scam and move on. It's not worth getting upset over. it has nothing to do with him having AS and it was just random. He is always wanting revenge and thinks about it when he gets a scam and he says he doesn't hold grudges?

Your friend might like this site then.

http://www.419eater.com/index.php

Go to the letters archive.

They play jokes on people who try to scam them. Soaking up alot of their time and one guy even got a scammer to send him cash first..

Here is that one and then there is another funny one about a church scammer.


Pay me 50 dollars to trust you first-
http://www.419eater.com/html/sheldon_venture.htm


Fake church vs. fake church-
http://www.419eater.com/html/samuel_eze.htm

Are you sure your friend really gets upset because he thinks they are targeting him for having aspergers or does it trigger his sense of justice?

I don't call people stupid for falling for scams, I do however like to reveal that anyone can be a target. There is no immunity shield.

Cool, I'll show him that place and maybe it will give him ideas so he can have his fun.

To answer your question, I am not really sure. He just takes it so personally and I don't understand why it's worth getting upset over. So I got silly about how he is acting when I told him how it's random and it's not like they were thinking that. I used to take things personally and still do sometimes when I think I am being targeted because I am different. If it's done by another aspie, I think it's because I am their target because I am someone they think they can mess with and that they think I am someone who is helpless and can't fend for herself. Then sometimes I realize it's random because I see them doing it to others and I feel better. So it's not like they specifically decided to go after me.

He even got upset when he got a scam message on a dating site. He took that personally too and I told him those things are common and it happens here all the time and they are just bots.