Female Aspies= Borderline personality disorder??

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One particularly interesting element of being diagnosed with a personality disorder is the way that people who believe the label perceive and treat you.

It's sometimes difficult for me to get people to understand that autism or ADHD leads to certain kinds of behavior, and how to accommodate it. It's very easy for people who know I was previously diagnosed with BPD and believe it's true to characterize everything I say and do as symptomatic of BPD, because "symptomatic of BPD" is a fairly large and amorphous category. Typical, everyday behaviors that were acceptable become "manipulative" and "passive aggressive" and if I get frustrated or angry about something, it's because I'm an oversensitive borderline and couldn't possibly have a legitimate complaint. Fortunately, I encountered very little of this due to the fact that my family, friends, and therapist don't believe the diagnosis was true. But I have encountered some. Some on this forum, some on another forum (all but one person involved on that other forum has since apologized and admitted they were wrong, and we're actually still on good terms).

The paper I linked earlier (I think on page 3) talks about how reasonable behavior from people diagnosed with BPD are reframed as hostile and manipulative and deconstructs these perceptions to show how they're not just false but harmful.

Another insidious element of being misdiagnosed with a personality disorder is that people who know just enough about them to be dangerous know that often people with PDs tend to have a lot of defense mechanisms to rationalize, justify, ignore, or deny their own behavior as problematic. Everyone else is the problem, they're just fine. This is called "egosyntonic" which means you consider these traits to be a normal and okay part of your personality. This is contrasted with "egodystonic" where the traits clash with your sense of self and who you want to be.

So, in practical terms, this means that people diagnosed with certain PDs especially are not just expected to deny it, but also to resist treatment. This means that saying you do not have a personality disorder, or the traits of a personality disorder then becomes symptomatic of that personality disorder. Denial in essence becomes proof to those who already want to believe you really have a PD.

When I saw my therapist the first time, I told her I had been diagnosed with BPD, told her I didn't believe it was true, and told her that I was aware that often people diagnosed with PDs deny it. So I asked her explicitly to let me know if I displayed any BPD-like behavior, as she's worked with a lot of people who have been diagnosed with BPD. After 10 months, her assessment was that I was not like anyone else she's ever worked with, and especially not like those diagnosed with BPD. I didn't offer her rationalizations for my behavior, or go down my list of reasons why I don't believe I have BPD. I just asked her to look for signs and talked about my problems.

And I wasn't really against the idea of having it - if I really have it, I really want to know that I have it, because I have a lifetime of difficulties to deal with, and I want to map them out and understand them as thoroughly as possible. It would be completely irrational to simply reject out of hand a particular diagnosis because I didn't like it. But if I don't actually show the signs of that diagnosis, I do not want to be diagnosed with it. I doubt most people want that.

There was the additional issue when I was diagnosed that I was worried that the diagnosis would sabotage my chance at therapy as well as my medical care. This has not yet happened, thankfully. Really, medical professionals in my local area are some of the best I've personally dealt with, at least in terms of listening to their clients and helping. None of them are perfect - I could go on all day how my therapist misunderstands some of the things I've said and bulldozes over my explanations until I lose track of the conversation - but they're better than many I've had.

Also, I should add the tendency for those who believe the diagnosis to willingly and even frequently ignore and trample over your personal boundaries because of their assumptions about who you are and what your behavior means.

"Another insidious element of being misdiagnosed with a personality disorder..."

Or diagnosed with a personality disorder.

Yes, this too. It happens whether the diagnosis is correct or not. My apologies for not being clear about that.

Ugh, I can't really follow this thread but it sounds like the argument is that female people diagnosed AS but also BPD in the past, and who has had the BPD diagnosis refuted by another pro, are actually just BPD. Weird.

With that reasoning I can't see how a female person with ASD and a BPD misdiagnosis (stipulate that that's the case) could ever be correctly diagnosed. It's like "non-compliance" -- even if your reason isn't "non-compliance" (say you're misdiagnosed and are being forced to take the wrong meds) that's what your actions will always get chalked to. The truth gets locked out with reasoning like that.

hallelujah on this post.

From what I recall of the point where I stopped paying attention to Poke's arguments because they were medical quackery, yes, that's what one of his early posts did seem to argue (although it slipped my mind when I replied this morning). I find it fascinating that he doesn't seem to acknowledge that someone might honestly feel misdiagnosed and not simply be trying to escape an undesirable diagnosis for a kinder, gentler diagnosis. That kind of logic is why I said I thought he was projecting - his analysis of autistic people's behavior often seems to come down to some form of dishonesty. The things he describes as dishonest are why I asked him if he was really diagnosed with AS. Not because he couldn't be diagnosed with AS, but because these are things it seems a lot of autistic people seem to understand and explain in particular ways, but he frames those things as lies.

I've seen a couple people mention bipolar, and both persons seem to be mixing it up with borderline personality disorder, rather than intentionally bringing up a new topic.

Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder is not the same. They have some similarities in how they look on the outside, yes. But they are very different.

Why do you think Verdandi isn't autistic and why do you care? FWIW, I think she's more likely to be autistic because to be diagnosed with bpd you have to have got 'busted' to some extent, you would probably be quite flakey. If Verdandi was bpd she wouldn't have been diagnosed with it, whereas you can be smart, rational, autistic and diagnosed. QED, more or less.

For a borderline autistic check out Amy from AFF. It looks totally different.

What the hell does it matter to you if Verdandi is correctly or incorrectly diagnosed?
You almost act like if she were right about her diagnosis, it would somehow discredit yours. I mean you taken on a unusual interest in Verdandi as some poster child for some cause of yours.
I find your behavior towards her to be like some deranged stalker.
Your cause for singling her out is not rational, nor sane and is indeed creepy.

Bipolar Disorder

That's the most common misdiagnoses preceding an AS diagnosis for females,
at least according to Rudy Simone, Attwood, and others.

Such was the case with me- depression, then anxiety, then bipolar disorder, then a generalized quarter life crisis involving me "running away from home" (at 21) that led ultimately to acceptance of the fact that my parents' expectations far exceeded my capabilities. (I'm not sure why a stranger behind a desk saying this made a difference to them, whereas when I'd said it for the previous 20 years, it didn't, but that's another day.)

I agree, we do manifest ASD differently.
I recomend all ASD women to read Aspergirls. It will make your life make sense.


Jojo

< My bf got it for me, for Christmas.
I'm reading it at the moment. Some of it I can't identify with, but a lot of it is spot on.

What does it look like? What makes it different?

It looks mental. Any borderline smart enough to get away with it, is smart enough to get away with it. If Verdandi was borderline she wouldn't be diagnosed with it (unless also autistic and by accident - but then it wouldn't be the bpd you were noticing).

What would I look for in myself to know if I have BPD? How would I know the difference if I am borderline instead of autistic?