On this whole AS="genius" thing...

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Maybe, but I know a lot of NTs who can/have accomplish(ed) a lot. Sometimes when people say things like ''Autistics are genuises'' sometimes gives me an impression that the general population are stupid. I'm on the Autism spectrum but I'm not a genius.

I know this "experiment" with a combination of money + adults rather than with marshmallows and kindergarteners. It's mutated into such a common silly test on semi-serious science series where I live.

To my amazement, next to all adults who should know better apparently decide to receive money instantly if given the option to choose between a small sum that's handed to them right then or to wait 1-2 weeks and receive four or five times as much then.



I can't wrap my head around it. I'd wait to gain the much larger sum, no question about it. I always feel much better about waiting for something if I know it's going to pay out well but I don't think that makes me successful. It simply makes me stubborn and ridiculously ambitious in things that I think are important.

At the same time, I have no patience to wait for things I deem useless which can be an ugly flaw as far as other people are concerned who have quite a bit of a different opinion than me on what's important and what's not. I guess that's where the autism kicks in and still manages to screws me up despite all that I learnt about those odd people out there.

My ability to embrace ambition for the sake of others or the for sake of others' ideas is impaired though as far as I know that ability is an important part of success.

Do what they want to do? With what means? Many already can't due to lack of opportunities, one of them being aptitude. Interests don't have a say in what amount of ability someone ends up with to pursue them. I think you obviously can't see a system outside of the current one of domination, and are clinging to whatever system of privilege is out there now.

And all of you repudiating IQ tests, saying they are meaningless, and making all kinds of misinterpretations of how they predict things, if you don't like your high IQs, why don't you do something to lose them? Those who make such facile criticisms of IQ are ones who don't have a clue what it's like to have a mediocre IQ.

This argument is meaningless. You're arguing for extending existing systems of domination to require people with high IQ scores to devote their energies to some nebulous idea of "benefiting society," which can very well mean benefiting those systems of domination and maintaining them.

I am arguing against the current systems (of privilege, domination) by saying that people should have the right to self-determination, and should not have their future laid out for them on the basis of an IQ score. I would say the same for any trait, deemed positive or negative. It is not a good thing that these options are not available to many people, but I don't see how you can argue that high IQ means less or no right to self-determination, and then accuse me of trying to defend systems of domination and privilege. The idea that you can instrumentalize and control people like that is central to these systems of domination and privilege.



This entire paragraph is a facile criticism. You should reconsider how you argue your points.

I didn't actually say to coerce anyone to do that in reality. I'm just not being silent as some who have such advantage to succeed and control others, pretend they're just as downtrodden as anyone else. I'm not letting that slide.


You're not expressing any points or ideas. So you just hurl the criticisms back. I don't have all the answers. But someone has to get their head out of the sand and say something.

So why aren't you out there making something out of your IQ (whatever it may be) instead of arguing on a forum?

Ohhh, you're making stuff up.

Here is what you actually said:



You weren't talking about oppression or control or who is downtrodden. You made a claim about people with high IQ who don't do something "meaningful" with their aptitude don't deserve to be that smart.

Even if what you are saying now were consistent with how you came into this discussion, shifting things around so different people are oppressed is not a solution to systems of domination or oppression.



You're not expressing any points or ideas in the quoted paragraph. I pointed out that the entire paragraph was facile. I mean, telling people to inflict brain damage on themselves? Seriously? That's just about on the level of "if you love posting on Wrong Planet so much, why don't you marry it?" or "America - love it or leave it."

The reason so many people in this thread are saying that IQ scores don't mean a lot is that because for us, they have turned out to mean very little, or actually made things unnecessarily harder on us. It seems like you're so attached to the ideological idea of "high IQ = privileged" that you're completely ignoring the fact that we're also dealing with cognitive limitations that NTs do not.

I also do not believe that everyone making this argument has scored high on any IQ tests. I am actually aware that many who have made these statements have actually scored fairly low in the past. This is another way in which your paragraph was facile - you tried to reduce a particular argument to a one-dimensional stereotype that happens to be factually incorrect.

Last edited by Verdandi on 25 Jan 2012, 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

My point wasn't that intelligence doesn't exist at all, my point was that it can't be measured and to be honest, I can't see a situation in which trying to measure it would be necessary. Say there are a bunch of kids who want harder work; if they want it, give it to them, if they don't and they prefer to coast or be autodidactic (like many Aspies are), let them do that. With adults it is even more pointless.

The point, as I see it, is that whoever you are, you will have gifts. Of some kind. So go out and use those gifts to make sense of the universe and do beautiful and meaningful things in it. Enjoy your life through your own cognitive make up. And don't worry about something as controversial and petty as IQ scores.

"At what they do".

They should really talk about that more.

Someone with AS might be skilled in something that can make them a lot of money.

Or they might be "the best" at something irrelevant, that doesn't even require much skill.

Geniuses, though, even the ones without AS very often (if not most of the time0 have an uneven set of abilities.

And most autistics are wired the same way, but may not be geniuses at all.

So they should be put tmore emphasis on the fact the an uneven skill set is usually an issue.

When I was tested I had a high iq. It didn't do me any good. All it meant was that I was good at taking iq tests.

I don't know my IQ score, they never told me so it must not be spectacular.

I know someone with an IQ of 155 and all she does is watch SpongeBob.

I didn't want to imply that people with genius-level IQ have the responsibility to work for the betterment of humanity. My point was that we view high-IQ people as geniuses, and the common view of a genius is somebody whose exceptional intellectual ability and creativity is apparent in his works and accomplishments.

Nobody would suspect a bouncer to be a genius, and I'm inclined to say that a bouncer doesn't deserve this title no matter what his IQ is. I'm totally fine with high-IQ individuals working as bouncers if it makes them happy, but genius is a title that has to be earned imho.

None of that is mutually exclusive to what I said. It's not the exact same point. I said a lot of things. Just think for once.


Those I was making a response to, didn't dignify a highly thought out response, due to the nonchalant way they spewed misinformed nonsense. And it's not like they're just uninformed. If they're thinking about the significance of their IQ so much, they can look up real factual information on the test.


They did not make things harder on you. That's impossible. What cognitive limitations? List them if you can.


So they had a surge in development as they grew up, and ended up with a high IQ. That doesn't excuse them at all. Many others will never get that benefit. You have zero-dimensions to what you say. All I see is inchoate complaints. I didn't say anything factually incorrect.

Yes, however, I'm not convinced that IQ is as "objective" or "culture-free" as some people (not you, just in general) seem to believe.

The very act of deciding that only traits that can be "measured" are the ones that "matter" is, in of itself, a cultural bias. And things such as "motivation" shouldn't actually be that hard to detect, but I've noticed a bit of a bias against "mere hard work" among high IQ-types.



Wow. I would have the IQ of a carrot if I took that test.



I can think of no reason why making a bunch of prototypes would indicate "less intelligence." I do my best thinking when scribbling on paper. Would that make me "less intelligent" than someone who doesn't have to scribble on paper to think?

TBH I find it kind of odd that so many on the spectrum do have these genius AND BEYOND IQ scores.

I know it's fact, I don't think anyone is lying lol.

It's just weird because the IQ test was originally developed in the Army, to measure the aptitude of the soldiers.

I don't know about most of you, but surviving and excelling in combat is the last thing I am wired for.

Survival skills in general are NOT my strong suit, because I lack a lot of practical intelligence.

I think many of you must score so high because of visual thinking ability.

Not trying to downplay anyone's IQ, I'm not a visual thinker so that is one ear I wouldn't score high in, but aside from the Verbal portion, I wouldn't anticipate scoring very high above average.

I know I would score low in anything that measures motor skills, I would think Aspies would too nut again, the visual thinking and good spatial relations that (some) Aspies have must get you good numbers on these tests, and they would be, or would have been, an important part of the test as far as being a soldier and being in combat is concerned.

You know being someone who has dyslexia and when they went over my IEP there were parts of the test were they said I was at a higher level the most. In fact I think in many of those tests when I look back on them I found the so long and just wanted out of there I would not answer some of them right just for the hell of it. All the dyslexia really hurt me in was writing and math. Out side of that though My memory, reasoning, etc are really very very very good.

Just one example in science classes unless we were talking about Space or airplanes I got board really fast. When it came to history class I loved it. For me back in high school if there was a class that was just all about outer space I would have taken it. That's where I guess you could call it love or what ever we want to call it is at. I have interest in outer space and airplanes I always have. Heck the fact that I keep look up about different seats on airplanes and that in my bookmarks on my computer I have three whole things of nothing about airplanes should say a lot. about me