I've cracked the body language code, folks!

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I'm not a religious man. But when people are being complete as*holes, intentionally or otherwise, I like to think of the phrase "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do". Quite likely, when I do that, I am being just as much of an as*hole as they are, but it does make me feel magnanimous. Did I just call big J an as*hole? It seems like an out of character thing to say really. But then everyone is an ass sometimes.

How do you see yourself as being just as much of an as*hole? I don't see that at all; in a way, the phrase you like to think of has some truth to it.


Oh, and one other pattern I've come to discover over time: even if you don't intentionally try to show other people around you what you happen to be passionate about...yeah, they're gonna pick it up. Many of them may even make fun of you for it.

Back when I was in high school, I just ignored them over it, and tried denying this or that.

Here's the simple answer now: if they try to ask you questions to "have fun with you"...just answer the questions. Reason being: you're gonna look a certain way to them no matter what. Don't be afraid to be you just because they don't get you.

If that's how they honestly need to get their kicks, it tells you quite a bit about them.

All the while I'm still doing whatever it is I normally do anyway, so it's not like my day stops any, or anything like that when they pull their antics.

This is what I mean when I tell you about the patterns you pick up on with other people; after a while, they become so commonplace that picking up on them can almost become second-nature to you.

While this sounds pretty cool, I think part of the reason many of us try to fit in isn't just for acceptance, but rather to minimize the damage of our "weirdness." We will come off as awkward regardless, yes, but what if our attempts to play up our awkwardness backfire and get us into more detrimental situations? It's hard enough dealing with NTs as is, to try a new approach might actually bring on more (negative) attention from them.

Tips and suggestions to go about doing what you say...

........Practical application not simply an extremely broad observation of specific Non-Autistic social interaction and then i would want to see a person placed in a multitude of social situations in-order to see 'why' and 'how' they respond.


TheSunAlsoRises

I was asking the OP, since this is his theory and he feels he's "cracked" some kind of code.

That said, what do you feel would be "practical" applications? The OP is actually saying there is no need for any type of "practicality" because practicality = trying to be one of them. He's saying to embrace the difference and stop trying to be one of the NTs who will reject us regardless.

And frankly, bringing the "how" and "why" to this thread seems a bit off topic. We were discussing that on the other thread.

His initial post is speaking of cracking whose 'body language' ? So, that, it may be used for 'what' purposes ?

In regards to the questions of 'how' and 'why', I felt it relevant to this discussion so i broached the issues.

TheSunAlsoRises

As I pointed out in one of my initial posts though.....you won't.

You may think you're minimizing the "weirdness"....you're not. I don' know if you've ever seen the video interviews with John Elder Robison on Youtube, but in them he tells us all how he's "done so much to improve his social skills"....and he still comes off for all the world to me like a cross between a suppressed serial killer/child molester.

I'm not knockin' the guy, he's an incredible inspiration to our community but my point is...even when you think you're covering it up even remotely well, you're not.

They can pretty much tell it looks terrible, and we look half-assed attempting it.

If you're trying to play the "who can out-phony the others" game, you're losing and fast.

This is why I think it's a massive waste to do it.


I've already explained the "why" in pretty much my initial post. Take another look-see at it.

Oh, I fully understand what you're saying about the fact we're not hiding anything. I wasn't talking about minimizing our weirdness, I was talking about the fact that taking a different approach may wind up AMPLIFYING our weirdness even more, or rather, intensify how much worse they'll treat us. They see us as weird regardless, we're not hiding anything. But to suddenly take a different approach might make them say, "he's acting even weirder, an abrupt change, so let's respond by shoveling the s**t on heavier."

I know I might be paranoid, I want to believe this will work.

Part of it may go back to my childhood, when my parents laid it on heavy to suppress my weirdness. I guess they though it was for my own good, even though it sure as hell wasn't, and it's hard to work past it.

None of your posts actually addressed this specifically:

Give an example of a scenario, how you would normally act, how you changed it, what conscious thoughts go through your head the moment you try to act differently. Like, a situation where you would have formerly acted one way, and how you act now.

Well to be honest my entire childhood I was told to act a very specific way around people; even my then-best friend put me down for "acting weird". I was taught about how to "properly conduct conversation" making eye contact, lower my voice, not talk so fast, try to show interest in other peoples' interests/discuss what everyone else was discussing. Pretty much I went thru this my whole childhood.

One thing that was done to me was I was put on every medication imaginable; I was told people preferred how I acted on the meds. I could tell even when I was doing every single thing that they told me to do, I was reprimanded when I pointed out someone else was doing something other than what I was told to do. On top of that, I could tell that none of what I was saying honestly meant anything to anybody....all they cared about was how I was saying it.

Basically, I didn't really get any major positive reinforcement from it, other than some very shallow approval; and the thing is.....I could tell it wasn't genuine approval. I'd get a few minor compliments, and then I'd pretty much be ignored/treated the same way I was before.

And the big kicker: at the end of the day, I was still told "you need to change"; as in, no matter what I did, it wasn't enough. The worst part is....many directly admitted they weren't teaching me to be substantial, but to be phony and create the false persona of being something.

Most of my childhood was basically spent having the world over tell me "everything you're doing is wrong", and pretty much talking down to me like they were superior to me on every level. Even my now-former best friend did this.

It was like everyone was against me, and I almost felt helpless; it was part of the reason I collapsed into a major depression which not surprisingly no one had any really good, substantial advice to offer me upon getting out of it( looking back, gee...what a surprise).

So technically, I did answer this before...in fact I answered it in my first few posts: no matter what you do, they're not gonna like you.

You're in a sense trying to live up to the person they want you to be; but it's not the person you are. I also don't believe it's really the person you want to be either.

Honestly, in doing that, nobody wins. You don't get to live up to your level of excellence, instead you're doing a half-assed impression of someone who's non-Autistic; the shallow people aren't impressed, and those who would make your life even better and have the greatest time in the world with you don't get to enjoy it--nor do you--cause you're busy sucking up to shallow people who are basically trying to put you down, and are too stupid and petty to understand you, nor do they care to.

And you know, I just remembered something: years ago in History Class, we were watching a documentary on President FDR; basically they were talking about his persona in the White House, and they told about how he'd have the most striking conversation with somebody, then as soon as they walked away, it was like he forgot everything, and would have a similar conversation with someone else pulling the exact same thing. In other words: he was a sociopath, much like most of the other folks that people here seem so desperate to impress. The saddest part was my History teacher--who I do admittedly like a lot--seemed to be so impressed by such cruel, shallow behavior.

Like I said: you're not impressing these people; they either could care less that you even exist, or preferably wish you didn't. And no matter how much you try to be more like them, it will never be enough...but why would you want to be like them?

Any other questions?

Yes. But first let me comment that I can identify with much of what you're saying. On a side note: though I do think, even if others don't care what I'm saying, I have a right to speak my mind. Why silence myself for them? That said, much of my childhood and young adulthood was talking to people who clearly didn't give a damn about what I said, whether they agreed or disagreed. It was about how I said it, and that was all they seemed able to comprehend, and I never knew why they couldn't move beyond that.

Anyway, the real question. Forget childhood. In your adulthood, I'm asking for an example of before/after you "cracked the code." In other words, as an adult, before you cracked the code, give me a scenario and explain how you may have acted. Since cracking the code, how do you act differently when you find yourself in that specific scenario again? Before/After approaches.

First tell me: what's the point in wasting your breath towards people who either clearly don't care or can't even understand what you're trying to say? Sure you can say it, but where/what does it get you? I have more important things to do with my time than waste it on people who will just disregard what I say.

Well, before I "cracked the code", I'd be more likely to hang onto peoples' word and believe that they sincerely cared to work with me/assist me. Now that I see they really don't care enough, I don't waste my time with it, and focus more thoroughly on other things.

For instance: when I used to hear people in the break room complaining about petty things, I would interject my thoughts in to where I thought they were totally wrong; they just laughed it off, and pulled out some idiotic answer, in many cases suggesting they were putting their lives in other's hands, and were unhappy when the others weren't good to them. I could also tell when they were talking about it that it was just sort of a "flavor of the moment" thing, and something they'd ramble on about. When I'd interject, they'd have a new tone to their voice as if to say "are we really taking this guy seriously? What does he know, regardless of whether or not his point makes sense?"

Or in many cases I'd have the faith in people to follow-up when it seemed like long-term projects were working out, and often times it was just clear that they had no desire to continue in that direction with me.

After having mostly cracked this body language code, I come off far more intimidating to people than I did before( and I assure you, I already came off considerably intimidating according to many people); it's almost as though they know I'm not hanging on their load of a word, and they all but suggest they've "come up empty". Basically, I see their "hand" before they can even show it, I don't waste my time, and much of the time it just shuts them up.

Here's the thing to understand: when you do this yourself, you will start seeing them in a much different light as well. You'll be able to identify when people say they "prefer substance" when they clearly don't, and...it really stuns people. In some cases, you'll see them start squirming, and getting mad as I've already mentioned. You may even see their faces flush, and just give you an attitude in the process. Then they'll just try to find a way to rationalize to continue doing/saying what they always do.

Don't get me wrong: most will still treat you the same as they did before--they really have nothing else--but those who won't may treat you far better.

Basically, from the phony ones, you're always gonna get the "same song and dance".

And they'll feel awkward around you, no matter how much you think your "social skills have improved".

Part if it may be my own hang up: "Am I saving my breath and not wasting my words on those who don't care? Or am I just not speaking my mind because I've been told not to by NTs and I reject this thinking?" In other words, am I appeasing them by keeping quiet? Or am I really saving my breath? That's what would go through my mind

Also, I think: what about a potential "diamond in the rough" that may actually get what I'm saying, that one odd exception that I'd pass up if I keep quiet.

What is “it” exactly that you don’t waste time with? When you hung onto their words in the past, how did you act, and how is that you act differently now? It seems like you changed you viewpoint, but nothing outwardly. They wouldn’t know/care whether or not you were hanging onto their words or not, so what is it that’s different?



So, are you saying you just don’t interject anymore? Do you say anything? What do you say now? Or do you just not participate?



Again, that’s cool you don’t care much anymore. But what’s changed externally? They don’t know/care whether or not you had faith in them. The fact that you did, but now you don’t, doesn’t really change the outcome of anything, though I’m glad you’re less disappointed because you don’t expect as much from them.



OK, but externally, what is it that’s different about your behavior that causes this intimidation? Are you doing things differently externally, not just internally? What is this time that you’re ‘not wasting anymore?’ What would you have done in the past that would now be seen as a “waste of time”?

The "it" is the situation. I don't waste any further time with a situation that clearly won't go anywhere how I always would envision that it would go. As another point I previously brought up, I was taught most people are actually good people with a lot of depth, and I've discovered this to not be true.

I just don't participate anymore; I see no reason to; I know that nothing worthwhile will come of it.

What's changed is that I give them no indication that I'm looking for their "goodness" and hoping that they're wonderful people. Externally.....good sir, how would I know, exactly? I may be self-aware, but I have no idea how the look on my face appears. I don't even think most of the time they know in their own situation. Nonetheless, I'm not expecting appreciation, approval, or anything like that. I'm self-aware enough to know not to expect it.

To ask me though "what's changed on your face?"; this is why I tell you that ya don't come off like 007 when you interact with them, no matter how much you think your social skills have improved. You may think you did well, but in reality you didn't, and they're not gonna tell you.

But I guess with the situation, if it's work related, and you want to keep the job, you can't just walk away from the situation. If working with someone isn't going as you envisioned, you can accept it, yes, but you can't walk away. What do you do?

And with giving indication, what were some of the things you used to do to try to give indication that you were looking for their goodness, that you now don't do? I ask, because I want to monitor myself now and see if I'm trying to win social approval and appear normal without realizing it. I want to see what I need to unlearn. So, before cracking the code, what were some things you did to try to win their favor that you don't do anymore?

Are you still polite with people?

I thank you for finally explaining that more thoroughly; first off, yes of course I'm still polite with people. In general, I believe in taking the high road as often as possible, even if they won't.

That doesn't mean be a walking doormat, it just means that I stand by my word, and be respectful as possible; and by the way, that's not something I do for them per se, but something I do for my own self respect.

I would never do anything to endanger my professional work life. There's a difference between doing my job professionally, remaining chivalrous in the process even on Break, and being "on the clock" at all times good sir. How would refusing to engage them about something pointless in the Break Room endanger my job? I'm focusing on other things when I'm on my Break; I'm doing nothing to break any rules.

Well before, I often turned a considerable blind eye to people being douchebags to me, simply figuring "deep down, there must be some goodness in them", as I was always told. I no longer do this, and in many cases will not even get involved with people like that. Even if I see hints of douchebaggery, or see people willingly engaging with them, I will not get involved. If I see even the tiniest sign that something might be off, I don't get any further involved and try to "help out".

Also in many cases, like with my now-former best friend, I would make several attempts to keep everything working as smoothly as possible; I no longer do that. If they want to continue to engage with me, they will; my time is very limited these days, and will not wait forever for them to do so. I often times will also not believe double-talk when I hear it, and make sure to get as accurate of an answer as I can; in many cases if someone tries to give me an excuse, I "catalog" things they've told me in the past, then repeat it to them.

Like I said from the start: I'm using what I've had from birth to deal with it....it seems to be working quite nicely