Is Asperger's Syndrome worse than Schizophrenia

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I'm not confused at all

I quoted from the original source material regarding how Hans Asperger himself saw things

And whatever the current interpretation fo the word autism, I think his meanign was a lot mroe accurate concerning the close links between schzophrenia and autism/Aspergers

But if people have a strong aversion to being associated with schizophrenia they are obviously not going to be receptive to this; hence the reinterpretation of what he said to suit modern sensibilites

That's fine but I think he was on the right track in the first place and prefer to see schizophrenia as a condition that can occur in a person who probably already has a some form of autism

There's evidence on this very thread of people saying they have both conditions

Yes but if I could guess the comorbidity of the two conditions would probably be in the decimal percentile digits.

Yes, that's if a person is saying they have both; by my understanding, anyone with schizophrenia probably has a very high likelihood of being somewhere on the autistic spectrum - there just wasn't a diagnosis availble to them at the time or autism wasn't suspected in the first place due to the rigid separation of the two conditions

How many people with schizophrenia have ever been tested for autism? Not many I'd bet

If you don't look for something you probably won't find it

This is my thoughts on the matter anyway as I have an enquiring mind and think it would be interesting to test people with schizophrenia for autism to see if my theory is correct

Here are examples:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... dmoor.html

"A man suffering from Asperger's syndrome who was wrongly sent to Broadmoor after being misdiagnosed with schizophrenia has been released after a campaign by The Telegraph."

http://www.lookingupautism.org/Articles ... andal.html

"Up to 60 people are being held in hospital prisons for the criminally insane despite a recognition that they have been misdiagnosed and are not mentally ill. The patients, who were declared to be schizophrenic, are now accepted to have Asperger's syndrome.

Despite that, they remain incarcerated in the special hospitals of Broadmoor, Rampton and Ashworth. The British newspaper, the Daily Telegraph, obtained details of one such patient at Broadmoor. Piers Bolduc was earmarked for transfer to a non-secure unit more than two years ago, yet is still waiting to obtain his freedom.

The single act of violence for which he was committed was carried out while on heavy doses of prescription drugs for schizophrenia, a condition he did not have. Since being sent to Broadmoor eight years ago, Bolduc, 27, has told his parents that he has been sexually abused by other patients.

On November 3, David Lidington, Britain's shadow environment secretary and the Bolducs' family Member of Parliament, will call for a British government inquiry to find out how many residents of special hospitals have Asperger's syndrome. He said: "There needs to be a review to see how many there are in this situation."

Psychiatrists say that many people suffering from Asperger's syndrome were wrongly diagnosed as schizophrenics up to the mid-1990s.

Richard Mills, the director of research for Britain's National Autistic Society, said: "At the top end, you are looking at 60 to 70 individuals out of a population of 1,400 in these hospitals. Most of them have been subject to misdiagnosis and they also tend to stay in the special hospitals longer than average because people cannot find a way of treating them. Yet in psychological terms, you can't treat them because they are not sick."

He said that people with Asperger's were not intrinsically violent. "Most clinicians believe that they are more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators because they tend to be generally socially naïve, which means they tend to be bullied and exploited."

Many of those misdiagnosed had been forcibly, and wrongly, given powerful drugs to combat non-existent schizophrenia, said Mills. "Anti-psychotic drugs given to people who are not psychotic are very harmful. Some of the effects can be irreversible."

A spokesman for Britain's Department of Health said that it was unable to provide figures for people with Asperger's syndrome being kept at special hospitals."


So the two conditions evidently give cause for confusion due to overlapping traits

This might help answering the question about the coocurence of ASD and schizophrenia.
And thanks for the articles you provided, those are very interesting.

"Is autism spectrum disorder common in schizophrenia?

[...] Forty-six young adult individuals with clinical diagnoses of schizophrenic psychotic disorders were assessed. [...] About half of the cases with schizophrenic psychosis had ASD according to the results of the parental interview. The rate of ASD was strikingly high (60%) in the group with a SCID-I diagnosis of schizophrenia paranoid type. The findings underscore the need to revisit the DSM's "either or" stance between ASD and schizophrenia."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22421071

Yes, it looks to me as if the two conditions are just different variations of one single condition

There have been brain scans done to diagnose autism so it would be good to compare these with scans of schizophrenic people

I suspect it will take a long time for anyone to change their views on these being separate conditions though as the system does not like to be proved wrong

Thanks.
I try my hardest to use Logic and Reason, but that doesn't always work. When I am stable, I can mostly use Logic, but when I relapse, I go into a horror/fantasy world.

Well (simplifying too much):

Schizophrenia - social isolation + delusions and hallucinations
Schyzotypal Disorder - social isolation + delusions
Schizoid Personality Disorder (ICD-10) - social isolation + introspection and fantasy
Schizoid Personality Disorder (DSM) - social isolation
PDD/NOS - several combinations, but one possibilitiy is "social isolation without restricted rotines and interests"
Autism/Asperger - social isolation + restricted rotines and interests

It is not much difficult too see how the confusion could emerge. Specially because the "fantasy world" or the themes of reflection of a schizoid, or the delusions of a schizotypal could also be considered as a kind of "special interest".

I know a woman who has severe schizophrenia. It's absolutely horrible, and her life is like a permanent nightmare. Literally. During her day -EVERY day- she experiences horror-like things that I only ever experienced in my very worst nightmares when I had a high fever. She sees and hears monsters and ghosts and thinks everyone and everything is out to hurt her. She is permanently in a panic. She has used many different kinds of medication, and a few worked, but always only temporary. She can't work or socialize or even learn to use a computer.

To me, what she has seems like the very worst thing a person could have. Certainly a LOT worse than Asperger's!! If I had to choose between what she has and lethal cancer I'd go for the cancer. A life like hers is pure torture.

But I believe there are also milder versions of schizophrenia. I think one successful local artist where I live has schizophrenia and she seems to do fine and have a great life.

But she doesn't represent every single person with Schizophrenia and Aspergers / Autism is different for everyone too.

I'm struggling to understand what the point of this thread is.

The point is, to ask what people believe is worse. One or the other.

As a sufferer of both, .......Hmm.. I don`t really know why I use the word "suffer". It is quite frightening for short periods of time when I have hallucinations and hear voices. To clear this up please never say that they seem real. They are real while they are happening. For me, after they happen I forget them now as easily as I forget someone who just shouted at me. (Which incidentally is the worst thing anyone can do to me) As for Autism, that is continuous, there is no escape ever.

Comparing the two? its like comparing the experience of a pub meal with being stretched on a rack for purposes of physiotherapy. I dislike both intensely but they cannot be compared on any scale.

I'm not quite sure what are you implying?
Are you implying that most were missdiagnoses?
On this study worked also Christopher Gillberg and I'm convinced that his knowledge in psychiatry is big enough that he knows how to diagnose disorders correctly. Of course missdiagnoses can always happen but in this case I'm convinced the numbers will be minor if at all.

That study is close to that (unfortunately was made with subjects with cognitive impairment; we don't know if their conclusions can be extrapolated to people of average intelligence):

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1 ... l%20AS.pdf

1 - I was not talking specifically about that studies, I was talking in general

2 - More than the difficulty in differentiate in practice an ASD from a SSD, I was thinking more in the difficulty in differentiating them in theory. Perhaps because of the specialization of researchers in specific fields, there is very little research about what is supposed to be the difference, between, let's say, schizoid pd and AS or PDD/NOS

3 - About that specific study, it was made using parental description of the behavior that their sons had before developing a SSD; an in loco study could give different results

4 - Christopher Gillberg is an expert in ASD; i am not sure if he has also a big knowledge of SSD

No way Jose!! I'm lucky that I do not have Schizophrenia - (and my heart goes out to those who do) But I will take Asperger's ANY day over schizophrenia. In fact give me 1000 lives with Asperger's and I will take that over a single life with schizo.

No way Jose!! I'm lucky that I do not have Schizophrenia - (and my heart goes out to those who do) But I will take Asperger's ANY day over schizophrenia. In fact give me 1000 lives with Asperger's and I will take that over a single life with schizo.

skizofrenia is worse.