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Spanking and Asperger Syndrome

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Callista
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24 Nov 2012, 8:45 am

Some kinds of spanking are harmless discipline. Other kinds are abusive. Yet other kinds are just useless, depending on the child. It is really a very individual thing.

For me--spanking didn't work, and shouldn't have been used, but was used anyway because my mother got frustrated. It's a very trying experience to be an autistic child being told you have broken rules you didn't know existed, didn't have the skills to follow, or demanded you undergo some painful sensory experience you absolutely hated. It's worse when your parents are in denial about your obvious autism and insist on calling it "bad behavior".

I would have responded to being told why the rules were there, and being shown how to follow them; if I broke them, the best sort of punishment would have been something instructive, such as fixing whatever damage I had done by breaking the rule; or something predictable, such as a pre-established penalty for breaking a known rule. I am the sort of person who will police myself if I believe the laws are just; I've always been that way, back to when I was a toddler. I break the rules sometimes, but I tend to be ashamed of myself for doing it. Being treated like a rebellious child really didn't help me any. Looking back on it, I don't think I was rebellious to begin with. I just wanted predictability from my parents, and never got it.


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Ohiophile
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24 Nov 2012, 10:39 am

tall-p wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I would go so far as to say that a lot of society's problems today are directly due to parents not disciplining their children enough.

I raised my two kids without ever disciplining them in any way. I never hit them ever. I never yelled. No time outs, or angry faces. No shame. NO RULES. One is a lawyer, and the other is a successful artist. They are both married and infinitely more cozy and comfortable in this world than their father... who was the custodial parent. I read the book by A.S. Neil Summerhill when it came out... and it enlightened me, and helped me separate myself from my father's angry disappointment about me.

Children don't need to be taught to follow rules. They do what their parents do. Do dog trainers smack the dogs they are training? It doesn't work. The dog just fears you FOREVER... but it still needs and depends on you to keep them alive. Just like a child. Kids are little. I say (now) that I "tricked" them into "obeying." But I wasn't afraid of messes. I didn't worry about making them pick up or do chores. I NEVER asked them to bring this or do that. So many families think that their children need to learn to do what they are told... like little servants, or soldiers. They think the world is going to treat them badly if they dont obey commands from adults. What b/s. I taught my kids to read...we taught our kids to read, and when they got to school they flourished. My oldest kid came home from school when she was a junior in high school first semester and said, "Im finished with high school. I want to go to college... and she did... and went on to post grad degrees.

And I let them draw on the walls of their own rooms... and they covered them with "art." ... then we would paint and spackel, and they would start all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School


They also do what they see on television, what they see their neighbors do, or maybe they just do the opposite of what their parents do. While everyone else is talking they may sit silently. Kids with aspergers clearly aren't doing what everyone around them is doing, so they need someone to come along and tell them directly to start figuring out how to act properly even though it may not come to them naturally. If you can't work that out through conversation then you may have to use a little force.



XFilesGeek
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24 Nov 2012, 10:52 am

whirlingmind wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And chimpanzees eat their own poop. It's "natural," but I'm not doing it.


If you've ever eaten or drunk anything with probiotics in it then you virtually have, where do you think they get those bacteria from? I saw a programme on it. And that's from other people's poo, not your own.

It's all very well laughing at what animals do, but nature gave them those instincts for a reason, and it's our sterilised, unnatural society today that is the cause of so many allergies and other conditions.

However, this is totally distracting from the point.


No, I've never eaten my own poo.

But you're more than welcome to if it makes you feel more "natural."


You clearly didn't read what I wrote. Never mind, if it makes you happy to intentionally misread and misquote people's posts, be my guest. :roll:


I did read what you wrote.

I just happened to find it nonsensical along with the idea that we should pattern our behavior off non-human animals.


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MaKin
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24 Nov 2012, 10:53 am

why do people want to associate spanking with discipline? i didn't spank my child, but made certain to teach self-discipline. i found that reasoning worked just fine. does that mean that his brain grew better because i didn't spank? or maybe i didn't need to spank because his brain was more developed?



Ewags
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24 Nov 2012, 10:56 am

Ohiophile wrote:
People with Asperger's Syndrome have brain overgrowth, high iq, sensitive to loud noise, lack empathy, and have poor interpersonal skills. Is this just caused by a lack of discipline at a young age? Studies have shown spanking between the ages of 2 and 6 decreases brain growth and can lower iq, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Perhaps this causes the brain to adapt so that it is less sensitive and can therefore better handle stress in adulthood. Studies have also shown that we are born with an infants' brain, but that it adapts in young age. So if you do not spank and yell at your child and properly discipline them, then could they retain these infant qualities of self centeredness, temper-tantrums, oversensitivity to noise and stress, lack of responsiveness to other people, etc... So it would be a trade off.


This is just a single anecdote: If whipping could prevent Autism or Asperfer's there is NO way I would have it. I was beaten daily with a belt for almost ten years. Maybe there is a clinical study somewhere on this?



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24 Nov 2012, 1:48 pm

Ohiophile wrote:
tall-p wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I would go so far as to say that a lot of society's problems today are directly due to parents not disciplining their children enough.

I raised my two kids without ever disciplining them in any way. I never hit them ever. I never yelled. No time outs, or angry faces. No shame. NO RULES. One is a lawyer, and the other is a successful artist. They are both married and infinitely more cozy and comfortable in this world than their father... who was the custodial parent. I read the book by A.S. Neil Summerhill when it came out... and it enlightened me, and helped me separate myself from my father's angry disappointment about me.

Children don't need to be taught to follow rules. They do what their parents do. Do dog trainers smack the dogs they are training? It doesn't work. The dog just fears you FOREVER... but it still needs and depends on you to keep them alive. Just like a child. Kids are little. I say (now) that I "tricked" them into "obeying." But I wasn't afraid of messes. I didn't worry about making them pick up or do chores. I NEVER asked them to bring this or do that. So many families think that their children need to learn to do what they are told... like little servants, or soldiers. They think the world is going to treat them badly if they dont obey commands from adults. What b/s. I taught my kids to read...we taught our kids to read, and when they got to school they flourished. My oldest kid came home from school when she was a junior in high school first semester and said, "Im finished with high school. I want to go to college... and she did... and went on to post grad degrees.

And I let them draw on the walls of their own rooms... and they covered them with "art." ... then we would paint and spackel, and they would start all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School


They also do what they see on television, what they see their neighbors do, or maybe they just do the opposite of what their parents do. While everyone else is talking they may sit silently. Kids with aspergers clearly aren't doing what everyone around them is doing, so they need someone to come along and tell them directly to start figuring out how to act properly even though it may not come to them naturally. If you can't work that out through conversation then you may have to use a little force.




While I did have the NT trait to copy people and mimic them growing up, I also learned the wrong things and had a hard time figuring things out and took it all so literal thinking that is how I am supposed to act. Also the fact I didn't understand rules are different for each age groups. So it made it hard for me to figure out how I am supposed to act. Then I wouldn't understand why I was in trouble and my little brother wasn't. Mom had to work hard with me on my behavior.


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24 Nov 2012, 1:50 pm

Ewags wrote:
Ohiophile wrote:
People with Asperger's Syndrome have brain overgrowth, high iq, sensitive to loud noise, lack empathy, and have poor interpersonal skills. Is this just caused by a lack of discipline at a young age? Studies have shown spanking between the ages of 2 and 6 decreases brain growth and can lower iq, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Perhaps this causes the brain to adapt so that it is less sensitive and can therefore better handle stress in adulthood. Studies have also shown that we are born with an infants' brain, but that it adapts in young age. So if you do not spank and yell at your child and properly discipline them, then could they retain these infant qualities of self centeredness, temper-tantrums, oversensitivity to noise and stress, lack of responsiveness to other people, etc... So it would be a trade off.


This is just a single anecdote: If whipping could prevent Autism or Asperfer's there is NO way I would have it. I was beaten daily with a belt for almost ten years. Maybe there is a clinical study somewhere on this?



Don't studies come from anecdotes?


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Ewags
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24 Nov 2012, 2:03 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Don't studies come from anecdotes?


The impetus of a hypothesis in which a study is based could be from a collection of anecdotes. The problem with anecdotes is they are very often misrepresentations of a population and the perceived evidence was not collected or studied in a scientific manner. People often would point to actor George Burns and say, he smoked and drank everyday and he lived to be over 100 years old. Therefore they believe that based on a single anecdote they can drink and smoke without impairment. While epidemiology and clinical studies show that this is very far from true, and most people who drink heavily or smoke suffer markedly.



tall-p
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24 Nov 2012, 2:46 pm

Ohiophile wrote:
tall-p wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I would go so far as to say that a lot of society's problems today are directly due to parents not disciplining their children enough.

I raised my two kids without ever disciplining them in any way. I never hit them ever. I never yelled. No time outs, or angry faces. No shame. NO RULES. One is a lawyer, and the other is a successful artist. They are both married and infinitely more cozy and comfortable in this world than their father... who was the custodial parent. I read the book by A.S. Neil Summerhill when it came out... and it enlightened me, and helped me separate myself from my father's angry disappointment about me.

Children don't need to be taught to follow rules. They do what their parents do. Do dog trainers smack the dogs they are training? It doesn't work. The dog just fears you FOREVER... but it still needs and depends on you to keep them alive. Just like a child. Kids are little. I say (now) that I "tricked" them into "obeying." But I wasn't afraid of messes. I didn't worry about making them pick up or do chores. I NEVER asked them to bring this or do that. So many families think that their children need to learn to do what they are told... like little servants, or soldiers. They think the world is going to treat them badly if they dont obey commands from adults. What b/s. I taught my kids to read...we taught our kids to read, and when they got to school they flourished. My oldest kid came home from school when she was a junior in high school first semester and said, "Im finished with high school. I want to go to college... and she did... and went on to post grad degrees.

And I let them draw on the walls of their own rooms... and they covered them with "art." ... then we would paint and spackel, and they would start all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School


They also do what they see on television, what they see their neighbors do, or maybe they just do the opposite of what their parents do. While everyone else is talking they may sit silently. Kids with aspergers clearly aren't doing what everyone around them is doing, so they need someone to come along and tell them directly to start figuring out how to act properly even though it may not come to them naturally. If you can't work that out through conversation then you may have to use a little force.

I have no idea what you are saying here. It seems like a reply to someone else's comment? I raised my kids without spanking, no yelling, no shame, or angry faces. Children don't "do what they see on television," or "do the opposite of what their parents do." Or my kids didn't. I taught them to read early. They were nice, smart, fun. I guided them, prepped them as best I could. I looked ahead for them as best I could... I anticipated, and explained forks in the road.


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DaninTexas
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02 Jun 2014, 10:05 am

Rascal77s wrote:
How about we offer people parenting classes so they stop being sh***y parents instead of encouraging sh***y parents to smack their kids to turn them into fine upstanding adults. Sensory overload? Smack. Stimming? Smack. Don't want to go out and play with the other kids? Smack.Banging your head on the table? Smack. Getting bullied at school? Smack. There's nothing wrong with these kids today that a good smack won't cure.


This is exactly the way Hitler's father treated his son. Smacking children for things out of their control (stimming, sensory overload, etc,) is beyond disgusting. People like you are the ones that raise dictators and future murderers. Spanking is abuse. Period.



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02 Jun 2014, 10:54 am

CocoNuts wrote:
People with Asperger's syndrome don't necessarily have a higher IQ than average.

I have a higher IQ than average, I do not deal with stress very well and I am sensitive to sounds and bright lights and I was spanked.
Me too.


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02 Jun 2014, 11:45 am

DaninTexas wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
How about we offer people parenting classes so they stop being sh***y parents instead of encouraging sh***y parents smack their kids to turn them into fine upstanding adults. Sensory overload? Smack. Stimming? Smack. Don't want to go out and play with the other kids? Smack.Banging your head on the table? Smack. Getting bullied at school? Smack. There's nothing wrong with these kids today that a good smack won't cure.


This is exactly the way Hitler's father treated his son. Smacking children for things out of their control (stimming, sensory overload, etc,) is beyond disgusting. People like you are the ones that raise dictators and future murderers. Spanking is abuse. Period.

the people who do the kinetic recalibration of their children as though they were balky tv sets or appliances, treat everybody like that who they can get away with bullying.



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02 Jun 2014, 11:52 am

How did I miss this topic...makes my recent post redundant (mods feel free to delete or merge my post on "Discipline what works what doesn't")

Thank You~


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02 Jun 2014, 11:53 am

JoelFan wrote:
How did I miss this topic...makes my recent post redundant (mods feel free to delete or merge my post on "Discipline what works what doesn't")

Thank You~

can you please provide link? :)



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02 Jun 2014, 12:06 pm

auntblabby wrote:
JoelFan wrote:
How did I miss this topic...makes my recent post redundant (mods feel free to delete or merge my post on "Discipline what works what doesn't")

Thank You~

can you please provide link? :)


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt260225.html


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02 Jun 2014, 12:22 pm

JoelFan wrote:
How did I miss this topic...makes my recent post redundant (mods feel free to delete or merge my post on "Discipline what works what doesn't")

Thank You~



This topic is from 2012.


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