It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?
Well this is an interesting point, but it is your story. I am perceiving you as functioning here primarily from one identity (which would be, in this case, what is called the protector), and again I could be wrong. And I did not suggest you have multiple identities, which point I think I covered very explicitly in my original diagnosis of DID when I said those different personae you are playing which you wrote about are probably not the same as an identity.
It's possible. I was sexually abused for several years by someone with DID as a child. I wonder if it can be transferred like that.
It was called MPD back then.
This would totally explain why, growing up, I was always told by church people that I was demon possessed. I still don't think the personality splits are strong enough to qualify though. Borderline can include some disassociation and personality splitting as well, but it's at a much lower level than DID.
littlebee, how familiar are you with BPD? What about my experience leads you to think that it's DID instead of Borderline?
It probably can't be transferred as it is more of a dynamic, but facets of different ways (meaning styles) of interacting can probably be picked up and played back unconsciously into the formation of a psychological syndrome.
The only reason I personally happen to know what I do about DID is because of a fluke in that I happen to be living with someone like that, and I got to observe him and figure all of this out, and in the beginning when I first figured it out, it was very freaky..
One point is that few psychotherapists probably ever get a chance to see someone with DID, and if they do, they probably miss diagnosing it because---as mentioned---the person only presents one personality. Secondly, the personalities do not always appear to be that distinct. They are.definitely distinct and observable, but you might have to know the person to see it. It is kind of unlikely in my estimation that a person would present both personalities to a therapist, as then he would have to begin to figure it out, and presumably the hidden aim of the entire split is to not be able to figure it out, ever.
I just noticed your question at the end about BPD. I will answer later, but as mentioned, these things can overlap. That is one of the problems with labels and trying to fit a person into a particular diagnosis,
The key point for now is that if people like you in the beginning, it is probably because that is who you really are,and not because you are pretending to have empathy. Imo empathy can't be faked.
Last edited by littlebee on 06 Apr 2013, 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tyri0n
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Well this is an interesting point, but it is your story. I am perceiving you as functioning here primarily from one identity (which would be, in this case, what is called the protector), and again I could be wrong. And I did not suggest you have multiple identities, which point I think I covered very explicitly in my original diagnosis of DID when I said those different personae you are playing which you wrote about are probably not the same as an identity.
It's possible. I was sexually abused for several years by someone with DID as a child. I wonder if it can be transferred like that.
It was called MPD back then.
This would totally explain why, growing up, I was always told by church people that I was demon possessed. I still don't think the personality splits are strong enough to qualify though. Borderline can include some disassociation and personality splitting as well, but it's at a much lower level than DID.
littlebee, how familiar are you with BPD? What about my experience leads you to think that it's DID instead of Borderline?
It probably can't be transferred as it is more of a dynamic, but facets of different ways (meaning styles) of interacting can probably be picked up and played back unconsciously into the formation of a psychological syndrome.
The only reason I personally haven't to know what I do about DID is because of a fluke in that I happen to be living with someone like that and I got to observe him and figure all of this out, and in the beginning it when I first figured it out it was very freaky..
One point is that few psychotherapists probably ever get a chance to see someone with DID and if they do they probably miss diagnosing it because---as mentioned---the person only presents one personality. Secondly, the personalities do not always appear to be that distinct. They are.definitely distinct and observable, but you might have to know the person to see it. It is kind of unlikely in my estimation that a person would present both personalities to a therapist, as then he would have to begin to figure it out, and presumably the hidden aim of the entire split is to not be able to figure it out, ever.
I just noticed your question at the end about BPD. I will answer later, but as mentioned, these things can overlap. That is one of the problems with labels and trying to fit a person into a particular diagnosis,
The the key point for now is that if people like you in the beginning it is probably because that is who you really are,and not not because you are pretending to have empathy. Imo empathy can't be faked.
Oh, yes it can
I rarely have real empathy.
That's not true. My cognitive empathy is usually ok, though it goes from very good to poor as well. But affective empathy is something I rarely or inconsistently have. It definitely has to be faked most of the time.
I'm still curious why you think BPD is less likely than DID, especially given the overlap.
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What does it reveal?
Schizoid |||||| 30% 40%
Schizotypal |||||||||||||| 58% 56%
Antisocial |||||| 30% 46%
Borderline |||||||||||||||||||| 86% 45%
Histrionic |||||||||||||| 54% 35%
Narcissistic |||||| 22% 40%
Avoidant |||||||||||||||||| 78% 48%
Dependent |||||| 30% 44%
Obsessive-Compulsive |||||||||||| 42% 45%
Here's one too. I don't think I meet all 8 criteria though:
Met minor characteristics corresponding to DSM IV*: 2
Secondary Borderline indicators* found: 3
The answers you have given suggest that you may in fact have to deal with a borderline personality disorder (BPD) according to the indicators outlined in the DSM manual. The additional presence of secondary indicators associated with BPD make this result look pretty reliable.
The test further shows that certain aspects of your behavior, but also the way in which you perceive your environment and yourself, are strikingly similar to the ways borderline personalities anticipate them.
http://www.counseling-office.com/surveys/survey_b.php
considering what your family and ex-girlfriend said, and the fact that you rarely had real empathy, and the fact that you don't feel the need to follow laws, and the fact you have superficial charm with women (yet flip-flop and toss them aside), have you considered the possibility of sociopathy? here are the criteria:
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
-failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
(keying cars)
-deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
(i believe you have mentioned compulsive lying in an older thread)
-impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
(you have been evicted from your place of residence and are having difficulty with planning for your future as to your education)
-irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
(you have mentioned periodic rages that last days or weeks)
-reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
(this might not apply, except for the reckless driving)
-consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
(again, regarding the lease)
-lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
(you said you lack empathy and don't seem to care that you keyed those cars. you also alluded to treating your ex-girlfriend badly and instead of wanting to improve yourself, you started a thread indicating that you think you'd rather just get into a relationship with someone who abused you right back)
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
(yes)
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
(i don't know about this)
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
(i don't know about this either)
sociopaths are not all horrible monsters or anything. there is a very good list of criteria here as well:
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
and a blog i follow over here:
http://www.sociopathworld.com/
something to keep in mind is that sociopaths are exceedingly common - maybe as common as 1/30 people! so it is statistically far likelier than any other diagnosis on that basis alone.
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A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
-failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
(keying cars)
-deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
(i believe you have mentioned compulsive lying in an older thread)
-impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
(you have been evicted from your place of residence and are having difficulty with planning for your future as to your education)
-irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
(you have mentioned periodic rages that last days or weeks)
-reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
(this might not apply, except for the reckless driving)
-consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
(again, regarding the lease)
-lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
(you said you lack empathy and don't seem to care that you keyed those cars. you also alluded to treating your ex-girlfriend badly and instead of wanting to improve yourself, you started a thread indicating that you think you'd rather just get into a relationship with someone who abused you right back)
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
(yes)
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
(i don't know about this)
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
(i don't know about this either)
sociopaths are not all horrible monsters or anything. there is a very good list of criteria here as well:
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
and a blog i follow over here:
http://www.sociopathworld.com/
something to keep in mind is that sociopaths are exceedingly common - maybe as common as 1/30 people! so it is statistically far likelier than any other diagnosis on that basis alone.
Yes, except all these things are extremely variable based on mood. I may exhibit all of these traits at some point, but there are other times when I don't exhibit them.
I have been keeping a journal since last September when I suspected something was off and started looking into Asperger's. I know that none of these things accurately describes me all the time. Sometimes, I very much feel like I have to follow every single rule and social norm. The impulsiveness happens in episodes.
Basically, everything is episodic. I also do have empathy some of the time. And I have remorse some of the time as well.
All these personality disorders overlap, but maybe DID, Cyclothymia, or BPD are better simply because they explain the variations.Also, I wasn't evicted. I fixed it. In addition, I have a very good work ethic. Top grades, stable employment, etc.
Finally, the grandiosity doesn't fit.
yeah, that makes sense - sociopathy is too static.
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Also, NPD would fit with the extreme responsibility in some areas (work and school), but sociopathy would not.
NPD can look a lot like antisocial personality disorder, as can Borderline.
I honestly wonder if I have both NPD and BPD.
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Maybe it's a form of dissociation but there is some memory loss of personal information required. Maybe temp amnesia is not the right way to put it. I do remember from class that the memory loss is an important criteria for distinguishing DID from other disorders, or psych's believe that anyway. I have a B.A. in Psychology.
I agree that memory loss is required, but I thought your description was more specific than what is required.
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Also, NPD would fit with the extreme responsibility in some areas (work and school), but sociopathy would not.
NPD can look a lot like antisocial personality disorder, as can Borderline.
I honestly wonder if I have both NPD and BPD.
You can meet the criteria for both. Also;
You can have NPD with BPD features.
You can have BPD with NPD features.
Cluster B personality disorders have a lot of overlap just by themselves, as well.
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OP ,do you have other BDP symptoms like not feeling like you need sleep for periods of time? That symptom in particular isn;t required for diagnosis of a hypomanic episode but again a psych prof told me that this particular symptom is good for distinguishing BDP from similar disorders. You said a lot of your symptoms are episodic, and also you have periods of extremely high and then extremely low self esteem, which could also be indicative of BDP.
Hypomanic Episode criteria:
A distinct period of persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least 4 days, that is clearly different from the usual nondepressed mood.
During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
The episode is associated with an unequivocal change in functioning that is uncharacteristic of the person when not symptomatic.
The disturbance in mood and the change in functioning are observable by others.
The episode is not severe enough to cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning, or to necessitate hospitalization, and there are no psychotic features.
The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
Note: Hypomanic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar II Disorder.
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Hypomanic Episode criteria:
A distinct period of persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least 4 days, that is clearly different from the usual nondepressed mood.
During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
The episode is associated with an unequivocal change in functioning that is uncharacteristic of the person when not symptomatic.
The disturbance in mood and the change in functioning are observable by others.
The episode is not severe enough to cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning, or to necessitate hospitalization, and there are no psychotic features.
The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).
Note: Hypomanic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar II Disorder.
no, the sleep thing doesn't really apply. I also think you're confusing bipolar and borderline. some of these things happen, but i am not sure the cycles are regular enough and often have triggers.
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Okay, well Bipolar and Borderline have some overlapping features. I'm not sure about how regular the cycles have to be in BPD.
Can't Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder also have wild vacillations in mood and self-esteem? Also Borderline?
Some of my "manic-like" episodes come after something that boosts ego.
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Okay, well Bipolar and Borderline have some overlapping features. I'm not sure about how regular the cycles have to be in BPD.
Can't Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder also have wild vacillations in mood and self-esteem? Also Borderline?
Some of my "manic-like" episodes come after something that boosts ego.
Yeah they can...that's one of the areas of overlap. I think it's even in the NPD criteria -the shifts in self esteem-I was just thinking BDP could also explain it. It sounds like you've really thought that possibility through though....... Hopefully you can see a psych about all this soon.......then you can also stop obsessing about it and get a better answer. The thing is you won't get a guarantee that you have X and Y disorders and not Z disorder. Pysch disorders are based on behavioural symptoms which are subjective. Unfortunately, it's not an exact science. Good luck.
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So, which of these would explain my superhumanly keen insight into people's weaknesses?
I've also been told I have an amazing ability to pinpoint tiny flaws in behavior, speech, and even clothing that others are only subconsciously aware of and use it to reconstruct an (usually very accurate) negative history of that person.
If someone asks "why do people perceive me as X?" or "why do people treat me like X?" I will be able to tell right away from something as simple as a head shot, or better yet, a recording of them talking. And I've had lots of confirmation that my perceptions in these areas are deadly accurate.
The problem is, I have many flaws due to my NLD, horrible executive function, depression, and identity confusion, so I am just as harsh on myself as I am on others. I will beat myself up--mentally and sometimes physically--like you have never seen before.
I also have a massive jealously and envy complex. I'm a guy, but even seeing someone of the opposite sex who is well-dressed or has expensive clothing or jewelry, throws me into a rage (I grew up poor and don't have a ton of fancy clothing). Of course, it's worse with envy of the same gender.
So which PD is this consistent with?