Myths many aspies believe

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marshall
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12 Apr 2013, 9:53 am

League_Girl wrote:

I used to apologize all the time and since I kept getting "No you're not" and people not buying it nor accepting the apology, especially online, I have quit this skill because I have given up. I think why even bother apologizing if people don't move on? Plus I have seen it with others too, someone apologizes and people don't buy it so I think "Fine, I am done then. No wonder as*holes exist, society creates them."

I will apologize if I absolutely feel I should rather than do it to make the person feel better or to get them off my back or have them get over it. Plus sometimes I would love to apologize but what holds me back is fearing the person won't accept it so I don't even bother.

Might be its just a bitter disagreement and they won't accept it unless you pretend to change your opinion. In that case maybe its better to just change the subject. Arguing with some people over some things is pointless.

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12 Apr 2013, 10:09 am

This is grea!! !! I love this it really needs to be a sticky! Or make a complication of all of them and make it a sticky!! !

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12 Apr 2013, 10:19 am

rixxar12 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

More myths that many Aspies believe:[list][*] "A self-diagnosis is just as good as, or better than any diagnosis by an appropriately-trained and licensed mental-health professional."

I don't know, i truly believe this one, i know sometimes im a little obsesive about my health, and over diagnose, but if a person has researched a lot in disease,disorders, mental and psychical, you can, do a propper diagnosis, because you really know what you are feeling, and the psychiatrist has to guess by what you say and show, and try to make a correct diagnosis.

I agree here. If the individual that thinks they have AS puts in research and study on ASD day in and day out for a long period of time (years), then there is a good chance that they might have just as much or more knowledge on the subject than the psychologist giving out the "official" diagnosis. I believe it would depend on a case by case basis because aspies' intellectual level varies person to person. So in other words, some aspies might be smart enough to self diagnose while some could study for years and not have the intellectual ability to make a proper self diagnosis.

I would say however, that if you are seeking an "official" diagnosis from a doctor, then find a relatively old doctor who has specialized in detecting autism and AS for many years, like 20 or more. To me, that would make them credible in an ASD diagnosis.

I still firmly believe, no matter how "qualified" some doctor is, they don't know more about me than me. <--- and that's the truth Jack.

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daydreamer84
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12 Apr 2013, 2:11 pm

ASdogGeek wrote:

This is grea!! !! I love this it really needs to be a sticky! Or make a complication of all of them and make it a sticky!! !

I agree...I'm really enjoying this thread. It would be cool to make one big list-after my exam I may attempt it.

Verdandi
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12 Apr 2013, 3:05 pm

marshall wrote:

The reason I say it's laughable is the number of irrational and obviously emotion based arguments I see on this forum all the time. Also, some people don't even seem to be aware of the influence of their emotions when making certain claims.

I started a thread about this once because emotion is a vital part of human cognition, and received a significant amount of pushback and defensiveness and weird scenarios to prove that emotion is bad and it's possible to act purely out of "rational logic."

marshall wrote:

The thing is you miss the point completely. Apologizing is not always about you being in the wrong. Sometimes it's about them. Being stubborn and defensive about it just causes needless friction and will escalate a minor misunderstanding into a full blown argument. It also is a common thing that aspies (and plenty of immature NT's as well) don't seem to understand. That sometimes diplomacy trumps maintaining your own "rightness".

This is it. For some reason people think being less accommodating and unwilling to be diplomatic is a sign of positive assertiveness, but it usually just turns everyone off.

My niece is like that, and she's not autistic. I think she has a personality disorder. Anyway, no one really wants to be like my niece - total lack of self-awareness, a need to be right at all times with no exceptions, and a hair trigger temper whenever people do not conform to her immediate expectations. Unfortunately, many people come across like that to various degrees because they're unwilling to step back and understand it isn't all about them, and sometimes it's about someone else too.

marshall
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12 Apr 2013, 11:07 pm

Verdandi wrote:

marshall wrote:

And they seem to get very shrill and emotional about their "rational logic" and their insistence that feelings are irrelevant. :shrug:

Quote:

marshall wrote:

This is it. For some reason people think being less accommodating and unwilling to be diplomatic is a sign of positive assertiveness, but it usually just turns everyone off.

It seems more like an obsession with being "factually right" and not taking the relative position or balance of the harm done into account.

Quote:

My niece is like that, and she's not autistic. I think she has a personality disorder. Anyway, no one really wants to be like my niece - total lack of self-awareness, a need to be right at all times with no exceptions, and a hair trigger temper whenever people do not conform to her immediate expectations. Unfortunately, many people come across like that to various degrees because they're unwilling to step back and understand it isn't all about them, and sometimes it's about someone else too.

I guess the thing that annoys me so much is that it sometimes seems so petty. If it's an aspie maybe they just can't take a step back but when it's an NT that's supposedly able to mind-read I start to conclude maybe they really want to be like that.

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12 Apr 2013, 11:26 pm

marshall wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

marshall wrote:

And they seem to get very shrill and emotional about their "rational logic" and their insistence that feelings are irrelevant.
:shrug:

Pretty ironic. Meh, I'm good at logic puzzles and better at doing things like linguistic analysis than, say ,writing a Philosophy essay in terms of school but I'm very emotional and emotionally sensitive , not very logical at all in some ways, not rational and cool-headed anyway.

I am stubborn and don't let go of arguments though. lol. Or atleast my mummy seems to think so. This is in reference to the other conversation you two were having

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13 Apr 2013, 2:40 am

marshall wrote:

The point you seem to miss is that while this may be true sometimes, other times it becomes placation on your end: the idea that their emotional needs are more important than yours. You must apologize to them for an unintended offense. Well, what about your emotions and your offense? Sometimes, I'm offended that people find me offensive and think any hostile behavior toward me is therefore justified. Why do their emotional needs trump mine...or yours in that scenario?

League_Girl wrote:

Amen League Girl. This is comparable to what I'm talking about. In real life, I usually do apologize just to keep the peace. But at some point, one must ask himself: why do their emotional needs take precedent over mine? Why is okay for them to emotionally fly off the handle over a misunderstanding, but not okay for me to feel insulted by their behavior?

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13 Apr 2013, 2:46 am

Verdandi wrote:

I'll have to search for that thread.

I once posted a thread regarding an article that summarized the point I just made in my post above this one. As I recall, you cherry-picked one sentence and put this same spin on it, that the author was saying emotions are irrelevant and it's all about logic, when what he was saying is that NTs often expect us to take their emotions into account while simultaneously having no regard for ours. The gist of his piece was that he wasn't going to grant moral legitimacy to their emotions if they won't afford him the same respect.

But somehow you made it about the author dismissing emotions of people who were physically/sexually abused.

I think while some people might try to play Mr. Spock and claim to be "totally logical," there is a second group that jumps anytime someone mentions the need for more logic and less emotion. They scream, "but we NEED emotion! It is illogical to say anything else! Oh!" when that's NOT the argument. The argument is that while we all have emotions, the scales are often tipped way too far in favor of such emotion at the expense of logic. Not that the scales should be tipped fully in favor of logic.

It's an odd agenda.

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13 Apr 2013, 7:14 am

League_Girl wrote:

Myth aspies seem to have: If you do something on accident, you shouldn't apologize because it means you did it with intent. That goes for saying things too someone found offensive or insulting or were hurt by it.

I used to apologize all the time and since I kept getting "No you're not" and people not buying it nor accepting the apology, especially online, I have quit this skill because I have given up. I think why even bother apologizing if people don't move on? Plus I have seen it with others too, someone apologizes and people don't buy it so I think "Fine, I am done then. No wonder as*holes exist, society creates them."

I will apologize if I absolutely feel I should rather than do it to make the person feel better or to get them off my back or have them get over it. Plus sometimes I would love to apologize but what holds me back is fearing the person won't accept it so I don't even bother.

I have experienced this as well and feel similarly frustrated.

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13 Apr 2013, 9:38 am

marshall wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

marshall wrote:

And they seem to get very shrill and emotional about their "rational logic" and their insistence that feelings are irrelevant. :shrug:

Quote:

marshall wrote:

This is it. For some reason people think being less accommodating and unwilling to be diplomatic is a sign of positive assertiveness, but it usually just turns everyone off.

It seems more like an obsession with being "factually right" and not taking the relative position or balance of the harm done into account.

Quote:

I find it amusing when people seem to think that logic and emotions are polar opposites and the utter antithesis of one another.

Also, that being unemotional means you're automatically logical, and visa-versa.

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13 Apr 2013, 9:39 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

marshall wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

Some people have actually apologized for me being hurt and then go "But..."

You do a joke, they get offended and insult you, you get upset and insult them back, then one of them goes "I am sorry your feelings were hurt but you need to be more sensitive towards peoples feelings." True story.

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13 Apr 2013, 11:50 am

Moondust wrote:

# NTs have no logic

They don't really have no logic, just less logic.

Moondust wrote:

# Empathy means compassion

Nope, empathy is about the ability to show compassion that you either have or fake having. Having the ability to show compassion that you don't really have is more valued than real compassion.

Moondust wrote:

# Social acceptance is a function of politeness and generosity

It should mainly be a function of politeness and generosity. In this aspect, the majority of people are scumbags. I don't care if the majority of people think that this opinion is delusional.

Moondust wrote:

# You have to fit one or more of the currently available diagnoses, rather than diagnoses having to evolve to better describe reality

Yes you do, just ask a random NT about it. They'll probably tell you that the psychiatrists are trustworthy and always right, just like the media and celebrities.

Moondust wrote:

# NT education about AS is the antidote to social rejection

Indeed, the main problem isn't that there's something wrong with the way people perceive us, it's that there's something wrong with them.

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13 Apr 2013, 12:12 pm

Mike1 wrote:

Moondust wrote:

# You have to fit one or more of the currently available diagnoses, rather than diagnoses having to evolve to better describe reality

Yes you do, just ask a random NT about it. They'll probably tell you that the psychiatrists are trustworthy and always right, just like the media and celebrities.

Actually, a great many NTs and Aspies have strong disagreements with the "shrinks", "media", and don't even get most people started about celebrities.

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marshall
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13 Apr 2013, 2:59 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:

marshall wrote:

The issue is that you offended them first and then refuse to even acknowledge it you're basically telling them you don't care if your words hurt. That's the issue, you acting like you don't care. That's what causes them to get hostile in retaliation.

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13 Apr 2013, 3:26 pm

Mike1 wrote:

They don't really have no logic, just less logic.

A popular belief, but I am not sure it is entirely accurate. I've noticed that people in general tend to exclude data they do not care to accept as accurate and include data that - regardless of accuracy - they believe to be true. I don't see any more or less of this on Wrong Planet than I do on other forums, and I think that picking and choosing data points to suit one's beliefs is not very logical.

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