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Job interviews unfair and insulting to people like us

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XFilesGeek
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09 Oct 2013, 4:56 pm

So far, the only effective way I've been able to deal with job interviews is by applying for the jobs nobody else wants for the hours no one else wants to work.

Creepy people going for creepy jobs generally works out okay.

I feel bad for you guys who want to compete in "white collar" environments, especially of the big corporate variety.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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09 Oct 2013, 5:22 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
. . . A new sit down restaurant just opened near my home in an old fast food restaurant (that's failed repeatedly under two different brands) . . .

Wow. I wish they understood that demographics and traffic patterns are at least as important as quality of food.

One way to look at Microsoft's success is that they were good enough across the whole spectrum: quality, price, service, etc.



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09 Oct 2013, 5:31 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
So far, the only effective way I've been able to deal with job interviews is by applying for the jobs nobody else wants for the hours no one else wants to work.

Creepy people going for creepy jobs generally works out okay.

I feel bad for you guys who want to compete in "white collar" environments, especially of the big corporate variety.


ooo... can you give some examples of creepy jobs? i wouldn't mind having one!


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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09 Oct 2013, 5:37 pm

eric76 wrote:
A number of years ago, a guy in Houston was laid off and had gone through all of his unemployment benefits with no job in sight.

Out of desperation, his wife made some tamales one day and he went out and sat by the side of the road and sold them. They sold, he kept doing it, and people kept coming back for more. . .

And more power to the guy. Okay, it just doesn't always work out this way.

One thing, he should avoid undercharging for his food. I've read with restaurants that food costs should generally be 23%, with some exceptions. Now, this might be different with a roadside vendor. But the price is really more psychological and what feels like to the buyer is an alright deal, and not directly based on the cost.

Let's say the guy sells enough tamales to make $160 for one day and his profit on that is $100. That's a good day's work.

Now, in some cities, maybe not so much in less regulated Houston, the city health department may want to inspect his kitchen, may require a commercial kitchen, etc.

And so for that and other reasons, I want us to get away from the idea that the point of a business is just about wanting it more and just trying harder. It also has to do with light touch. As an analogy, a doctor might be an excellent diagnostician, but I hope he or she doesn't become married to his or her first diagnosis for a particular patient.



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09 Oct 2013, 6:23 pm

Raziel wrote:
GiantHockeyFan wrote:
Raziel wrote:
I don't agree totally with that statement that job interviews are unfair to ppl with AS.

Well, the simply fact is that EVERYONE I know with AS under 40, both diagnosed and "highly suspected" on my end are ALL either students in their 30s or are working near minimum wage jobs. Seems to me given that they are generally good people there must be a reason they cannot seem to get ahead and it's obvious the whole ridiculous interview process at 95% of companies is why.

Doesn't matter how smart, intelligent, hard working you are if nobody will give you a chance.


It's not all about job interviews, you know.


Please tell everyone how to get a job without interviewing (or networking, which people with AS are even worse at).


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09 Oct 2013, 6:28 pm

Codyrules37 wrote:
If you look good and have decent social skills, people will think more highly of you.
(....) Showing eye contact is easy. .


Quote:
just let social skills flow naturally.


I'm not sure you quite understand what the major problems in Asperger's entail...


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09 Oct 2013, 6:56 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:

Please tell everyone how to get a job without interviewing (or networking, which people with AS are even worse at).


The only 2 jobs I had I got without an interview.

The first one was a paper route. One time I called in and gave my name, number, and address and later they called when a route was available in my area and asked if I wanted it.

The other time I had a friend working a cleaning job and they must have been desperate for a new worker since they hired me with no interview or application just because my friend told them about me.



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09 Oct 2013, 7:45 pm

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
80% of new businesses fail, typically because of undercapitalization (yes, 8 out of 10 of new businesses fail). And people need to understand this going in.

That's why I would get so angry when people would say "Start your own business if you can't find a job" as if it were that easy. Unfortunately, I have this thing called intelligence and I know that an entrepreneur is most likely to fail. Business cost a fortune to start and those who start cheap (say, by using a paper sign and plastic furniture for a restaurant) are going to fail, period! A new sit down restaurant just opened near my home in an old fast food restaurant (that's failed repeatedly under two different brands) and I actually wrote the opening date on my calendar to see when it will fail. I swear many entrepreneurs WANT to fail and don't seem to understand WHY large companies are successful.

People would complain at this point that I just have a negative attitude and that's why I can't succeed. Yeah, I guess not having delusions of grandeur is a bad thing!

I'm thinking of being an entrepreneur in game development, nowadays game engines are so easy, crowdfunding campaigns to see if my game is worth the investment, plus some games are made by 1-3 people and do really well, I think I have a shot if I get the equipment and some other people that are willing to use their free time to work on the game.



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09 Oct 2013, 10:51 pm

hanyo wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:

Please tell everyone how to get a job without interviewing (or networking, which people with AS are even worse at).


The only 2 jobs I had I got without an interview.

The first one was a paper route. One time I called in and gave my name, number, and address and later they called when a route was available in my area and asked if I wanted it.

The other time I had a friend working a cleaning job and they must have been desperate for a new worker since they hired me with no interview or application just because my friend told them about me.


Second job you got through networking


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kahlua
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10 Oct 2013, 1:38 am

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
I still can't wrap my head around why someone would avoid someone unemployed? If I saw a perfect candidate who was chomping at the bit to get back to work, I would hire them over another one of those this-might-be-a-better-job-but-I-will-probably-still-leave-within-3-months candidates.


Because it shows that you were good enough for another company to employ you, and they kept you employed so therefore must be a good worker.

I've just done more interviews in the last 3 weeks than I have in my entire career, and managed to get the job I really wanted. While my resume\cv and experience are more than enough to qualify me, these days people want everything. So you have to go to interviews so they can make sure you present well, can communicate well with other people, and ask questions that lets you prove your knowledge etc.

The worst interview was a behavioural interview that mainly consisted of "can you tell me about a time when X happened and what you did". Nothing like being put on the spot when you're already nervous as hell, using heaps of brain CPU just to remember how to be social (smile, look at interviewer 1 for 10 seconds, now look over at interviewer 2 for a bit, stop nervous finger picking, etc.)

An interview is the one of the most important acting situations you can be in.... get a script, run through it with other people, get some standard responses to questions (what are your strengths, what are your weaknesses, where do you see yourself in X years) etc.



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10 Oct 2013, 6:46 am

kahlua wrote:
Because it shows that you were good enough for another company to employ you, and they kept you employed so therefore must be a good worker.

That's the thing: it doesn't at all. At every job I worked at, there were people there 2,3 years and they were completely useless. Maybe they were friends or family but the point stands: you can sit at a desk for that long but it doesn't mean you are doing anything productive. Meanwhile, I know unemployed people who were stuck in that catch 22 and couldn't even get a 'basic' job because they were overqualified. You know, like I was 6 years ago.

Quote:
The worst interview was a behavioural interview that mainly consisted of "can you tell me about a time when X happened and what you did". Nothing like being put on the spot when you're already nervous as hell, using heaps of brain CPU just to remember how to be social (smile, look at interviewer 1 for 10 seconds, now look over at interviewer 2 for a bit, stop nervous finger picking, etc.)

Ugh. Most of the 'corporate' interviews had some variation of this. Why can't these HR clowns get it through their head that all this leads to is hiring the best actors and BS artists. One thing in common that all these companies have is that they have mediocre employees all around. Gee, I wonder why?



XFilesGeek
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10 Oct 2013, 9:39 am

Opi wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
So far, the only effective way I've been able to deal with job interviews is by applying for the jobs nobody else wants for the hours no one else wants to work.

Creepy people going for creepy jobs generally works out okay.

I feel bad for you guys who want to compete in "white collar" environments, especially of the big corporate variety.


ooo... can you give some examples of creepy jobs? i wouldn't mind having one!


Overnight inventory management at Wal-Mart. :D


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10 Oct 2013, 2:39 pm

On their Internet job application, Walmart uses a psychology test. If you answer "none of my friends use drugs," they believe it is more likely that you also do not use drugs. And they take this a step further. The test seems to believe that if you have a rosy view of the world, then it is more likely that you are honest, nonviolent, etc. So, the way seemingly to play it is goody-two shoes throughout.

"No, most people have never stolen from a workplace."

"No, most people have never been angry enough to hit someone."

Yes, this is naive psychology. But I think this really is the way to play the hand.



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10 Oct 2013, 2:47 pm

It's been a long time since I even applied for a job so I never had to do one of those tests but it would really bother me to lie on those tests, assuming I even knew the right answers and could bring myself to do it.



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10 Oct 2013, 3:01 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
"No, most people have never stolen from a workplace."

"No, most people have never been angry enough to hit someone."

Yes, this is naive psychology. But I think this really is the way to play the hand.


Not necessarily.

Depends on what you consider "stealing." Technically, using the copier for something personal or taking a pen home is stealing, but most people consider "stealing" something big enough to make you stop and think if you should take it as compared to something so small you just do it without thinking.

Likewise, lots of people want to hit someone else, but they restrain themselves from doing so. Hence, perhaps most people really have not been angry enough to hit someone else.



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10 Oct 2013, 3:04 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
On their Internet job application, Walmart uses a psychology test. If you answer "none of my friends use drugs," they believe it is more likely that you also do not use drugs. And they take this a step further. The test seems to believe that if you have a rosy view of the world, then it is more likely that you are honest, nonviolent, etc. So, the way seemingly to play it is goody-two shoes throughout.

"No, most people have never stolen from a workplace."

"No, most people have never been angry enough to hit someone."

Yes, this is naive psychology. But I think this really is the way to play the hand.


Actually there are many statistics on percentage of employees who steal or are violent and most people do not do those things. There is also plenty of research to show that people who do steal often justify it by saying 'everyone does it' and many of them actually believe it. The test you describe is possibly less about testing for a 'rosey view of the world' and more to rule out those who think most people steal as it might indicate they think it's fine for them to steal because they believe it's common and by extension normal and not a big deal.

That seems silly to me as those who would steal might also lie so the question is really only filtering out those who don't realise what the question is for and tailor their answer to suit.