Are autistic people as susceptible to herd behavior as NTs?

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I think people who have an actual herd mentality, are more likely to know how to fit in instinctively without having to think about following others. They just do it without trying or thinking, and they likely don't even realize they are doing so.

What you are talking about is what I would call, for lack of a better word, a "pseudo herd mentality", in other words it is something you do because you observe after some time that what you are doing is not in sync with other people.

Exactly.

Are you saying this in relation to what I said in the initial question?

"Despite that people on the spectrum may not find themselves in crowded situations very often."

Because I wasn't trying to suggest that would be a reason autistics wouldn't be susceptible to herd behavior.

Last edited by Abcrone on 25 Feb 2014, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It wasn't intended to be an ''Us vs Them'' kind of question, It was just a curious question pondering my mind.

I have an anti-herd instinct. I seem to always oppose, reject and be different for the sake of it. It's equally as damaging to my relationships as autistic issues are. I still don't pick up on a lot of social customs but I will disagree in some way with people.
I think it's got something to do with barely having a opinion on my own in childhood, now my opinion is always the opposite. It's almost an anxious response.

Also, I agree with everything dianthus has said. I'm just having difficulty expressing it in words. All I could really come up with is that people with autism copy people more slowly, it's not instinctual but after some time of realising their behaviour is different from others and they are rejected for it, then they decide to copy people to change.
You said it better than me.

When NTs accommodate to herd behaviour, they do it because that is what they fundamentally thrive on.

When people with AS accommodate to herd behaviour, they only do it because they have figured out it is to their own benefit to do it.

This does not make people with AS more "mean", it is just a result of different social structure between NTs and people with AS.

Copying other human's behavior? no.

If you always do the opposite thing to what the herd is doing, no matter what it is, aren't you letting your behavior be controlled by the herd just as much as someone who always goes along with the herd?

Hmmm…. curious and slow enough to wait till you see the person with the gun?

Bang! You're dead.



I would respond to the shout of "Fire!' or a fire siren, whether I was alone or in a crowd of people. To leave a building in response to a recognised and well-established warning of danger isn't an example of herd behaviour. Nor do I see it as a panic response. Any time I've been in that type of situation, people have responded calmly and rationally. That includes responses to false alarms and when there was actually a fire.

Humans are more likely to be injured escaping from danger because they are more likely to be in a confined space with limited exits, and often obstacles in the way which present tripping and crushing hazards and pinch points. Put a herd of cattle in a shopping centre, then spook them, and I'm sure you'll find more than a few will end up injured. You'd probably be grateful for the presence of a handy gunman, who could put them out their misery!



In line with the general thrust of this thread, that it is a form of conformity, the motivation for which can and will vary, according to individual and group.

That's a very vague and general statement, it's not an example of anything specific. What is a specific behavior you have observed in autistic people that you would define as herd behavior?

Herd behavior is a primal impulse to move in the same direction as others of your own species. It means that when you notice peripherally that others are beginning to move en masse, your brain fires off neurons to get you to move with them. Animals do this to escape danger. The term "herd" relates to animals so the point of talking about herd behavior or a herd mentality in humans is to compare human behavior to animal behavior. Herd behavior is about physical movement, moving in a herd, flock, or school, or in humans, a crowd. The impulse to follow the movements of a crowd may trigger decisions to conform to social norms, but those are conscious decisions.

Humans are less susceptible to herd behavior if they do not register the body language and eye movements of other people, and/or if the brain does not fire off impulses to copy or mirror the movements of other people.

Also, herd behavior completely aside, some people with neurological disorders or brain damage may not experience the impulse to escape danger. Some people might have a delayed reaction, and some simply do not react at all.

Animals herd and move instinctively in environments that are natural and familiar to them. A shopping mall is not a natural environment for cows. I would dare say it's not a natural environment for humans either, but humans entering a mall have knowledge about exit doors, and the ability to think and make decisions about finding those exits, that cows do not have.

I would say definately not. I infact despise herd behavior and only do it when I have to.

Ah, sorry. I was in a hurry yesterday and didn't answer the last point properly.

It is difficult to give a detailed example as the herd behaviour I observed was on another forum for autistic people and their allies, and took place in fits and bursts over a period of several years. The herd behaviour I observed would fit Asch's Conformity model, I suppose. There were people who took a particular line, in agreement with the larger group, despite having previously and sometimes subsequently, expressed a very different line or viewpoint. I also saw "mobbing" behaviours and there was a "siege mentality". I suppose, more generally, the in-group/out-group of ASD/NT is a form of herd behaviour.

I remember thinking something like this years ago (before I knew about AS), when I was wondering what it really meant to be an "individual", or if such a thing even existed.

I came to the conclusion that if you do what you actually want, for your own reasons, and some of these actions just happen to correspond with what others are doing, you're not really "following a herd" because you're not doing it for the sake of following (or refusing to follow)--you're doing it because you just want to.

Of course, that then leads to the question: do we ever REALLY do anything SOLELY for our "own" reasons, completely independently of what anyone else says/thinks/does? I suppose I could go on like this for hours, but....

To some extent. We don't seem to have herd instinct, because we don't fit in, people don't like us, and we don't understand what others are thinking, but I still think the herd instinct exists. I do know once I know what others are doing I feel compelled to do the same thing, not because I want to, but because I fear that I will lose out by being different.

Oh, and Aspies definitely clique up. My friends at school and I used to rant about the jerks in class, and ignore a former friend who had upset one of our friends in the group. At college, my pals and I used to b***h about this annoying girl, especially after she made use of all of us. The difference is that the herd is probably a smaller one, since Aspies often don't follow convention.

Many years ago, I switched from Linux to OpenBSD because Linux was becoming too mainstream. Does that count?

I've always danced (or is it marched - I can never remember) to the beat of a different drummer.
Never been a crowd follower. If the crowd's going left, I'm going right and vice versa.
Always preferred my own company. I'm funny and clever.