Autism Is Not An Excuse To Do Nothing

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I don't see how that means you can judge any of that for other people, you are living the life that makes you fill fullfilled...you cannot judge whether or not someone else thinks their life is fulfilling and just as enriched as they want it. I personally don't have a ton of stuff to always be keeping up on, and only have a few real 'interests' am attempting to improve my social life or create one...but that's it, too much more than that right now and it would just be overwhelming and unpleasant whearas with you if you had to spend a day in my life you might be bored...

And I personally do not believe people in general are 'self sufficient' so to me it would be a silly thing to strive for total self sufficiency even normal functioning people without disabilities need other people for a variety of reasons...I mean so you work and earn your own way...well that is great not everyone can work, you being able to does not actually give you any authority on what lifestyle works for every other person.

I think that people posting about their successes and positive developments is good.
It is good for people who are doing well in life to talk about how they worked really hard to get where they are, because that is usually what happened.
People shouldn't assume that people who are doing well had no problems in life or no obstacles getting to where they are or no current issues that they must work to deal with each day.

Or those truly confusing individuals who eat fast food like you'd get from McDonalds for convieniance before going off to their oh so successful carreer and then turn around and talk trash about people who work in fast food for minimum wage for throwing their lives away, being too lazy to go get a 'real' job and bla bla bla...no appreciation whatsoever.

This is true, and people who are doing well should not assume people who aren't as 'successful' are holding themselves back, never trying to do anything related to life and have some kind of delusion that everything is supposed to be 'easy' and thus will not attempt anything outside of 'easy'....or the assumption that a poor me card is always being played when someone maybe is isolating a bit or not doing much, maybe the person actually feels like crap and aren't just after attention and are actually struggling with something. But you are right assumptions can be made on both sides doesn't make them accurate.

I do not think anyone is objecting to this on WP and I don't think the majority of autism advocates are objecting to this at all.

I problem is that there is a need to understand that every autistic kid is fundamentally different from other ones and every single one will need their own combination of treatment,therapies, methods of discipline, methods of motivation and ways to reveal the diagnosis. When it comes to letting autistic kids know what they have, in fact, there is no one answer that works for all kids. For one kid it might work better to let them know at around age 6 or so, for others it might be better once they go off onto college and for others it might be better for them to wait until they are adults. And as for telling the kids to get up and do something, that simply motivation technique will work for some of them but not all of them. One can hardly assume that would work for the more impaired kids who are really struggling to master even the basics of reading other people and their emotions and being able to form complete sentences.

I think the essay in the OP had very valid issues, at least in regards to whatever subsets of the autism community actually are using it as an excuse to not make honest efforts to improve their behavior. And I am empathetic and sympathetic to her need to counterbalance the autism advocates who are encouraging this mentality, to the extent that they genuinely exist. But not understanding conceptually that every autistic kid is wholly different from the others and need to be brought up, disciplined and motivated in a way that is most effective for them is problematic.

She provides counselling for people on the spectrum and is quite active in autism things.

I knew I could count on this thread for some intelligent dialogue.

I don't know if you were addressing me specifically with this post, but I'm going to reply as if you were.

I ended my post with this for a reason:



Because I hope that sharing my experiences inspires others to go out and have their own experiences. My post was not intended to belittle anyone for not racking up a long tally of achievements or varied experiences in life.

Further, if you recall my posting history over the last couple years or so you'd know that there was a time a couple short years ago or so where my symptoms were very strong & I was incapable of working or holding a job. I've been in that particular cycle of living hell myself & eventually learned what I needed to and did the hard work required to get myself out of it. It hasn't come easy or been handed to me on a silver platter.

I acknowledge full well that there are things others cannot do that I can, for various reasons. But IMO there's a reason people can't do something, and whatever it is that constrains them is something they ought to work on improving so that they can do things. It's classic "theory of constraints" (industrial engineering, but also other sciences) stuff.

I'm certainly not taking any insecurities out on anyone. Rather, I hope that others can look to my example of going from so anxious I could hardly breathe a few short years ago to working & living a rather well rounded happy healthy fulfilling life and think "well, if he can do that.. then maybe I can, too."




Perhaps "judge" is being taken too literally. It's my opinion & the perspective from which I've formed it. That's it that's all. We're not obligated to agree. We'll often each have a different opinion on something because we have different experiences and perspectives in life.

Of course people still need/want other people. I still live in a household with other people even though I can afford to go rent my own place. I still visit friends and family when I can because I need/want them in my life.

Again, it's my opinion that working & earning is a better way to live. I wasn't always able to, but I've worked very very hard on myself to enable myself to do so & it's my opinion that if others are in a position that they cannot work that they should do their best to work on themselves until they are able to do so, bit by bit improving themselves and their lives. I'm one who cannot accept a negative position or situation in life as permanent. It's simply a temporary roadblock to be overcome, no matter how much effort or time it takes. Again, that's me and my opinion. Others are free to think & feel whatever they like about the subject.



Ding ding ding. btbnnyr gets it. I've had some relative successes in my life, yes, but they haven't come without a LOT of hard work, persistence, dedication, relentlessly improving myself along the way etc. 2 1/2 years ago I was highly anxious, suicidally depressed, and could barely use my fingers to tie my own shoes - among dozens of other symptoms. I've come a LONG way not because someone handed anything to me, or because I was born able to function as I am, or because of any sort of magic.. but because I've worked extremely hard at doing what I need to in order to get what I want. I've come a LONG LONG way in the last couple years.. and sometimes I need to stop and acknowledge that and give myself a little pat on the back for it, but at present, because today is my "new normal" I kind of take my position in life a little for granted and don't feel like it's something of any great accomplishment yet because I still have MUCH larger goals for myself that I'm striving towards. I don't feel like I've reached anywhere near my full potential in life or business or sports and so on, and so, I carry on with continuous improvement in all areas of my life that I can.. and bit by bit I'll continue to work my way into an even better position in life - bigger, better, faster, stronger, healthier, happier, wealthier & so on. It's simply become the way I live my life & I feel like nothing can stop me from working towards and achieving these goals - not even me. IMO, it's a pretty awesome way to live. YMMV and that's OK.

As for people holding themselves back.. no, I don't think people intentionally consciously hold themselves back - but I do believe that there is always something that constrains them, something that does hold them back - as per the theory of constraints. While it's typically applied to industrial manufacturing processes, it's universally applicable to all things - health & medicine included. It may not be the person themselves holding themselves back (probably almost never is, actually) but there is SOMETHING that constrains people. If it's anxiety, deal with the anxiety. If it's depression, deal with that. etc. Whatever it is, identify it, then do whatever hard work you have to so that it's no longer constraining you... and then identify the next constraint and deal with it - rinse & repeat, forever, in a never ending cycle of continuous process improvement.

I basically approach my health & well being as an industrial engineering problem, in essence, as we really aren't much different from any other process. We're made up of resources & components that work together in a systematic process to produce specific results. If we're not getting the results we want, there's some sort of constraint or process variation going on that needs to be identified and rectified. It may be physical, it may be emotional, or mental, or neurological, bacterial, viral, pathogens, sleep related, environmental chemical related etc etc and so on - but there is always something that's the biggest constraint to our success in whatever it is we're attempting to achieve that can be identified and worked on until it's no longer a constraint & something else is, and then it's that thing we focus on, and then the next and so on.

For me, going out of comfort zone is most important to getting to my goals. Feeling really uncomfortable for periods of time is needed to go after many goals, I think. Part of the message i would send to others based on my eggsperiences is that they will have to feel really uncomfortable and even horrible if they want to make improvements to their lives. Others can take that as a good message or reject it, I am ok with any perception of it.

Goldfish, my post was about the blog post in the OP, it was not aimed at you specifically. I'm sorry if it came across that way. The following is also in response about the blog in the OP:

Of course, I think it's great when people are able to achieve. I just think people like the woman in that blog put a lot of pressure on others to achieve the same goals as NTs do. As Sweetleaf said:

This is has the nail on the head. NTs get support from other people in all sorts of ways that we don't, and we're lucky if we do. They get jobs, relationships and friends while (relatively) barely trying. We're diagnosed with ASDs for a reason - because we are struggling (i.e. trying but failing) in life. And life whether we like it or not, is governed mostly by other people.

I think putting the same expectations on autistics to be able to achieve exactly what NTs do, and actually degrading them if they can't, is rather horrible. It's the equivilent of telling a deaf person that they'd better hear other people properly.

Autistics have to work so much harder to achieve what NTs can, the whole game is unbalanced to say the least. And I'll mention - I've known autistics who have put their all into achieving something, like degrees, like jobs, like a social life. And they've ended up having breakdowns. Why? Because of this stupid mentality that the blog woman is promoting. That somehow we're only people if we look and act to the same ideals as the NTs do. It's very shallow, and again, like others have mentioned, we're not all able to go full steam ahead and survive.

And it's very patronising of her to remark that we don't try.

I find that her post is more judgmental than I had thought before, which was that it was a little judgmental, given that she provides counseling for autistic people.
One thing that I have found is that the more autistic people I meet, the less likely I am to describe the needlepoint person the way that she describes and tries to reduce someone's story to an eggsample of how one should not be in her opinion.

It's obvious that we (some of you, me) read the article differently. I don't think she is saying "be like NTs" - (another of her posts "The Tyranny of Normal" makes the case against that). However what we see depends on where we stand.

The fundamental message isn't anti-embroidery! That's a bit of a strawman IMO. The major theme of the article is (to my mind) "doing something is better than doing nothing with your life". I believe that too.

I guess the thing that bothered me is: how can you tell if someone is doing nothing with their entire life from when someone is resting and recuperating because they have to?

Having been judged for what others perceived as "doing nothing" when I was really surviving and hanging on by thin thread, that easy judgement of the girl bothers me. And it would bother me if she was watching videos or playing games instead of doing emboidery. Any of those seemingly worthless activities might be really helpful to her in invisible ways.

No worries, I liked putting my perspective out there on the forum anyways.

I don't view it as her putting pressure on others to achieve.. but suggesting that others put pressure on themselves to achieve. There's a difference. I think the blog poster isn't intending to apply the outward pressure you're interpreting at all.. but, rather, indicating that Autistics ought to want to achieve things for themselves, and believe that they can, vs. allow limiting beliefs to control their own capabilities to achieve various goals in work & life.

I also don't think she's suggesting Autistics have the same cookie cutter goals as NT's may typically have, but rather that they ought to simply have goals in general, whatever they may be.

Yes, jobs/social interactions etc come easier & intuitively to NT's - but that doesn't mean Autistics shouldn't want or strive towards these things. Just because it's more difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. I like to use the phrase "Nothing worth doing is easy," because I believe it through and through.

Of course degrading someone who tries is horrible. They ought to be commended for a genuine effort & encouraged to try again, or try something different and new, instead.

The deaf analogy is a good one. (One thing I didn't add to my list of many things I am to many different people is a bit of an Oral Interpreter for my deaf friends at times.) Some of my best friends are deaf - and while I don't have any expectation of them hearing properly (that's absurd) I also don't have any lowered expectations of what they can achieve in life. My best friend since high school is deaf. Back then, he was scared s**tless that he was going to be relegated to being a grocery store stock boy or floor sweeper due to his hearing loss. I told him countless times that's BS, you can do anything you want to. I like to believe my positive affirmations helped form his better beliefs about himself. He went on to complete an education in Computer Science/programming & got himself a career type job that pays double what I've typically earned. He's married with two beautiful children. His side business has grown to the point that he only works very part time on his "career" job anymore. His net worth is a half a million dollars or so higher than mine. His, also deaf, wife is a wonderful mother. She got herself educated as a veterinary assistant, but is a stay at home mom. His childhood best friend, also deaf, played hockey for team Canada in the Deaf Olympics in Sweden & in Salt Lake City. He has a good paying job working for a utility contractor. His (hearing) wife works for a bank. They have an 8 month old baby girl & have just purchased their third home (a 1350sf apartment built in 1987 for a "deal" of a price of $700K), which I've been helping him renovate before they fully move in. Neither of them have allowed their "disability" to disable them from living life to their fullest potential, whatever it may be. They utilize technology (hearing aids/text/email) & other work arounds and don't make excuses.

I've had to work harder & differently to achieve the things I have. I've had my own breakdowns and meltdowns etc. It's all a part of life. Just because there might be rough patches doesn't mean we shouldn't venture down the roads of these various journeys and goals. It's not really about the achievements themselves so much as it is about the journey & the process, the trying. It's the old cliche "It's not the destination, it's the journey" sort of mentality. Just because the going might get tough does not mean we shouldn't get going.. when the going gets tough, the tough get going! No, it's not easy... but nothing worth doing is easy!

She's not suggesting that people don't try just because they haven't achieved a particular result or goal. She's talking about people who give up without ever even trying. There's a big difference.

"She's talking about people who give up without ever even trying. There's a big difference".

Yes, there is a big difference, and SIGZ is writing that post about a very small subsection, as she makes clear - and I have seen exact examples of that very small subset on WP from time to time, saying "why should I try, what's the point, I'm autistic".

I was a bit put off by the way she told the story about the needlepoint girl, it was so reductionist and just used to support her points without considering the totality of some real person's life.
I don't think the whole thing about needlepoint was a strawman at all, I think it is relevant to the discussion.
I think that you cannot reduce someone's life to a simple eggsample to support your own points, so I was surprised to find out the blogger ackshuly provided counseling to autistic people, it doesn't seem like she is that good at understanding autistic poeple.

Someone apparently doing nothing is usually a really bad situation emotionally for the person and the person's family, as there can be severe anxiety and depression deeply involved, not only autism.