Why does everyone say "we can't diagnose you here"?

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StarTrekker
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14 Jul 2015, 2:14 am

League_Girl wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

Eloa wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

I think Fnord is being too literal by taking the question "am I autistic?" at face value without looking any deeper. The majority of people are not literally asking if anyone here can officially diagnose them, they're primarily asking if it sounds plausible that they could have some form of autism. I know this because many of the posts include the phrase, "I know no one here can officially diagnose me."

I don't understand that someone is being accused of displaying autistic symptoms on an autism forum.
I saw it happen in other discussions as well, autistic people being accused to be too literal or rigid in thinking and more.

It was less of an accusation and more of a pointing out of specific behaviour. I often don't realise when I'm taking something too literally, and someone telling me that I am helps me step back and look for a different, more accurate perspective.

That's useful, and disturbing, information! Thanks for pointing it out; I'll be more scrupulous about taking people at their word concerning the extent of my literal interpretations.

Friendly advice here, people can tell you that just to manipulate you into believing you are wrong and out of line so you will believe what they want you to believe and they are just being discriminating because of your disability so be careful.

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StarTrekker
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14 Jul 2015, 2:16 am

Eloa wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

Eloa wrote:

StarTrekker wrote:

I understand, "accusing" is not the right word I have chosen.
Sometimes I have English words in my head when writing a reply or post without really checking them for accuracy.

It's okay, my words don't always come out the way I want them to either!

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14 Jul 2015, 2:44 am

Fnord wrote:

jk1 wrote:

[...] I don't think anyone would seriously think they can get an official diagnosis on WP.

Then why do they ask for a diagnosis?

Generally speaking, they don't. They ask for an opinion. No qualifications whatsoever are required to hold an opinion.

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L_Holmes
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14 Jul 2015, 2:48 am

I tried to make this clear in my original post, but I'm not literally questioning the logic behind stating that we can't diagnose, because yes, it's true.

What I'm really against is the idea that being "blunt" is universally good. And it's not an aspie thing either. I've seen plenty of NT people claiming that the reason I or someone else got offended by what they said is just because they're blunt, and that we just "can't handle the truth" or something like that. There's no logic in that idea, yet people believe it, and that is what I find irritating. It is often used, in my experience, as a way for someone to justify being a jerk to someone else. "Hey, I'm just being honest!"

I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening here every time people are blunt. Actually I would say usually not. But still, I think it is important to understand that it's not inherently a good thing, and it's also important to distinguish bluntness from rudeness, which for some reason people seem to get confused. You can be totally honest and up-front with someone and still take their feelings into account.

And Fnord, honestly I find it pretty annoying that you can't even seem to address my points, which I think are legitimate and logical conclusions. I guess you don't have to, but you don't have to insult my intelligence by assigning me silly ideas that you know aren't mine and making huge leaps in logic either. Even if I am wrong, an illogical refutation isn't going to prove that. Is it possible for you to just have an honest debate without treating me like a child? I'm serious, it seems to me that it is hard for you to be respectful in a debate for some reason. I recall having this issue with you before, and seeing it happening with others as well. The issue, in my opinion, isn't that you're too blunt, but that you tend to be a bit disrespectful to others.

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The_Walrus
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14 Jul 2015, 4:07 am

Often, the descriptions users give are too vague or incomplete to be any use.

Then I can say "well, you might have autism, but it's impossible to diagnose you based on this".

When I say "diagnose", I obviously mean in a very armchair manner.

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14 Jul 2015, 11:59 am

I don't think it's rude to say that I can't diagnose someone with autism based on their description of themselves in forum posts, or if I think that they list clear traits that preclude autism, e.g. being normal as children and only developing slightly autism-ish/introverted/socially anxious traits as teenagers or adults, then it is not rude in my opinion to say that I don't think it is probable that they have autism based on certain precluding traits or history. The other side of saying that they probably have autism is too difficult to determine without meeting them in person, so I can only say that I don't know, or their traits are not inconsistent with autism, or it is best to get evaluated if they have impairments that require diagnosis.

What L_Holmes is saying about distinguishing between bluntness and rudeness and taking others' feelings into account when giving an opinion can be difficult for many autistic people. Some things that others think are rude, I don't think are rude, so there is nothing to prevent me from saying those things that I think are fine to say. Usually, I don't know much about what others' feelings will be in response to my opinions, so I can only state my opinions. If I were to take others feelings into account and try to figure out what they may think is rude or what they may not want to hear, then I would be effectively silent and not able to say anything.

What I would prefer is ackshuly that people spoke their mind in a more straightforward way and were more rather than less blunt.

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L_Holmes
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14 Jul 2015, 3:29 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

I agree with everything you've said. I just think what I'm referring to is a bit different, because with a lot of the things that Fnord has said on this and other threads I've seen in the past, he might make one comment that is just his honest opinion, and then if people try to disagree he just gets very sarcastic and dismissive rather than have a logical discussion.

I'm not saying this is only him, I've seen plenty of others here do this sort of thing, and it really irritates me. I just don't understand why it's necessary to act that way during what I think should be a purely logical debate. It makes no sense to me.

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btbnnyr
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14 Jul 2015, 3:48 pm

L_Holmes wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

People have their individual ways of saying things, so I take the view that it is up to me to deal with it if I have any problems with their way of saying things. I usually don't have much problems with most ways of saying things. Personally, I am glad Fnord is around to communicate what he does in his way of communicating. It's the sugary sweet emo stuff that I can't stand, I usually ignore it.

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L_Holmes
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14 Jul 2015, 4:18 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

L_Holmes wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

I find the "sugary sweet emo stuff" a bit annoying too. But I feel like for some reason that's what people think I'm doing here. I hate when people try to please everyone and just say what they want to hear, which is why I tried to make it clear in my original post. But for some reason people seem to be taking it as me saying that we shouldn't tell people the truth, and instead say what they want to hear (i.e. "You definitely have autism.") I'm just trying to point out that we can be helpful beyond just telling someone the fact that we can't diagnose them.

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ToughDiamond
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14 Jul 2015, 4:24 pm

L_Holmes wrote:

with a lot of the things that Fnord has said on this and other threads I've seen in the past, he might make one comment that is just his honest opinion, and then if people try to disagree he just gets very sarcastic and dismissive rather than have a logical discussion.

Well, looking at the example in the link you posted before:

Fnord wrote:

AspieUtah wrote:

And, jumping on new members for asking about themselves is insulting, in my opinion.

It is not insulting to say something to the effect that to OP is looking in the wrong place, and that he or she would obtain better results elsewhere.

Of course, you could always use the 'Report' button to make sure that the mods know about our efforts. Dog forbid that such good intentions should go unpunished.
:roll:

....My view is that Fnord was indeed a tad harsh there, but only in response to a remark that did seem to be rather asking for it, and to say "jumping on new members" wasn't the most diplomatic or accurate way of putting a point, nor was calling the tendency of WP members to say "we can't diagnose you" insulting, particularly without the qualifier "in my view." Forgivable, yes I hope so, because we're all human, but Fnord is human too.

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14 Jul 2015, 4:34 pm

L_Holmes wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

L_Holmes wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

It is hard to be helpful for those am I autistic questions because it is really impossible for me to make even a guess without meeting a person, which is why I can only point out if they say something that likely precludes autism, or ask if they have impairments and how to bring those up to a psych for assessment. Sometimes, someone will show that they can't accept a non-positive yes you are autistic answer, like if posters say that their descriptions are common traits and not obviously autistic. Or they will try to make autism criteria fit them rather than the other way. Basically that they have decided in their minds that they have it and want others to validate them, then get nasty if others don't. I think I have only seen some people be more dismissive or negative towards the questioners in those cases.

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