Militant, much?
DentArthurDent
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
I have aspergers, it is a disorder that has really f****d up my life, thankfully I have been DX and can now make some sense of why I piss people off. I do not have super powers, am certainly not blessed by god, would love to get along in social gatherings and would definaltely CHOOSE to have a cure administered. I am astounded to here talk of genocide, how the f**k is this genocide. I dare you to go to Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, Israel, Armenia etc with this definition of genocide, since when has curing a large group of people with a disorder been genocide. Don't forget that for a lot of people ASD is extremely debilitating.
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
Any attitude that would encourage abortion of those carrying the gene/trait can be extrapolated to mean "genocidal".
I see your point about Rwanda etc, but I have to say that anything with a genetic focus/marker/typing could be subject to genocide. Has it happened yet, has it gotten to the point of Rwanda/Bosnia/etc? No. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? That's what groups like this and activists are trying to avoid, I believe. Genocide doesn't have to follow the strict definition of nation/race. Anthropologists would argue that there is no such thing as "race", just a collection of phenotypes.
Of course, that's another issue altogether.
Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is just pretending.
Come to think of it, when did I say I was offended? It's not about being offended, and quite frankly it wouldn't matter if there wasn't asingle NT who came on this site and got offended by it.
THESE ATTITUDES ARE STILL STUPID, WRONG, ARROGANT, IGNORANT AND A WHOLE PLETHORA OF OTHER THINGS.
Pot calling the kettle black? You sound very rude and arrogant.
Why the caps lock? Why such inflammatory language if you aren’t offended? Is it just for effect? Does it make you feel tough? The way you write makes you sound like a typical internet troll.
DentArthurDent
Veteran
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
Why the caps lock? Why such inflammatory language if you aren’t offended? Is it just for effect? Does it make you feel tough? The way you write makes you sound like a typical internet troll.
Sorry Marshall you're the one being incredibly rude, DeanFoley is simply frustrated and stating his opinion, you on the other hand are throwing personal insults. I for one think it is ridiculous to think that in some way people with ASD are in superior ( if you really want me too I WILL troll throught hte posts that demonstrate this opinion) this is not to say that the general population should not be educated about the disorder, the same way that kids today know not to ridicule people with cerebral palsy (when I was a kid they were know a spaco's). The trouble with ASD is that unless it is really pronounced we appear normal to the majority of people (even my partner who works with kids with Intellectual Disabilities knew that something was not quite right with me but did not know what it was until she got some kids that had ASD as well as a low IQ.) Bullying at school and the workplace should be stamped out because bullying is wrong, not because bullying people with aspergers is wrong. Those of us that can bridge the gap between ASD and NT should do so without predujice, remember most people are not able to recognise HFA, can you? Being superior has never helped anyones cause, and will not hel ours.
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
I think we all seem to be forgetting about the variation between individual personalities, neurostructures, cultural archetypes, etc.
Everybody's different. Some individuals can be superior, some can only run in a pack, others are inferior - to weigh all in one is, well, foolish. Blanket-approaches never solve anything.
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Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?
If humans are stewards of planet Earth our efforts leave plenty of room for improvement. Our efforts have jeopardized the survival of every species including our own. Obviously NTs and Aspies have different strengths/weaknesses. Whatever rants people have, above and beyond our need to vent, can we at least agree on this premise.
For me, wisdom and compassion are the attributes that measure superiority. Neither NTs nor Aspies have significantly distinguished themselves in these areas. It is imperative that we do so.
Each person, no matter what their disability or tendency to run with the pack, has an important place in terms of the whole. For the benefit of all we need to motivate each one to innovate and improve on the collective way of getting things accomplished. We need to encourage each one to be who they, in fact, are. No sense in trying to be something you are not. In most cases it doesn't take rocket science to know what your strengths are.
Humans ought to be exhibiting behavior other than running with the pack. We need new ideas because the old ideas have brought us to the point of extinction.
NTs and Aspies need to reach agreement ASAP on assessing each others strengths and weaknesses. Where social interaction is required, NTs need to lead. Where objectivity and technical expertise are required perhaps we can agree to let Aspies lead. It's not like we have a thousand years to figure it out. In terms of reaching the point of no return, it'll all be over in a few decades (at most) if we don't at least begin heading in the right direction.
Which means reversing our course.
It does not mean conforming to that which has been tried and has failed.
deleeeted
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?Evil? No. Cursed?! No. COATED IN CHOCOLATE?! Perhaps. At one time. But NO LONGER.?
Last edited by Aurore on 07 Aug 2008, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why the caps lock? Why such inflammatory language if you aren’t offended? Is it just for effect? Does it make you feel tough? The way you write makes you sound like a typical internet troll.
Sorry Marshall you're the one being incredibly rude, DeanFoley is simply frustrated and stating his opinion, you on the other hand are throwing personal insults. I for one think it is ridiculous to think that in some way people with ASD are in superior ( if you really want me too I WILL troll throught hte posts that demonstrate this opinion) this is not to say that the general population should not be educated about the disorder, the same way that kids today know not to ridicule people with cerebral palsy (when I was a kid they were know a spaco's). The trouble with ASD is that unless it is really pronounced we appear normal to the majority of people (even my partner who works with kids with Intellectual Disabilities knew that something was not quite right with me but did not know what it was until she got some kids that had ASD as well as a low IQ.) Bullying at school and the workplace should be stamped out because bullying is wrong, not because bullying people with aspergers is wrong. Those of us that can bridge the gap between ASD and NT should do so without predujice, remember most people are not able to recognise HFA, can you? Being superior has never helped anyones cause, and will not hel ours.
Comparatively, I still find Dean's content more a source of contention, as his opinions were set out as fact. Marshall asked questions, and expressed his opinion as such. Additionally, I disagree with part of your response, where you say "it is ridiculous to think that in some way(s) people with ASD are [in] superior"... Everyone has areas where they excel, where they fall behind... while I don't know what the intent of your statement was, it feels like just giving up, that because of an ASD that one is behind the 8-ball and is dressed in negative connotations from there on. Do you make any distinction between pride and arrogance?
M.
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My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
An opinion can be arrogant; it can be ignorant... but it isn't your place, or anyone else's, to determine whether they are right - and most certainly improper to call another person's opinion stupid. You find their views in stark contrast to your own, which is your right as well. Might I suggest posting your own thoughts instead of attacking others? You might find more effect there. As it stands, you come across as upset, ranting, and offended - this is gleaned from your word choice, pacing, capitalization and repetition of concept. Again - it is not up to you to judge another's opinion. You can be frustrated, upset, but it isn't your decision.
Let's turn the situation around - what about those who would fall under the classification of NT who have superiority or inferiority complexes? I do not seem them targeted with the same venom as those on the spectrum who have the same thought process.
Disagree with that statement, though I can allow that those of a religious persuasion may identify it as a blessing or a curse. Just does not compute for me in that context.
No, although due to the lack of external influences there does seem to be a tendency for logical processes to overrule instincts. This could be perceived, or adopted, as a positive trait. Nothing wrong with turning something into a positive for yourself.
Generalization, in my opinion. Many individuals here have taken their lumps from others who don't understand; in that pain, the identification is like a shotgun instead of a sniper rifle... a lot of collateral damage. As experience is refined, the true culprits do begin to appear.
Given the inclination within society to eliminate those outside of norms, and the historical patterns of both distant cultures and our own medical culture allowing for such selective termination... while I am leery of the term genocide, I do not think that a dose of concern is unwarranted here. The passage "they came for _____, and I did nothing" is coming to mind here. Awareness is not paranoia; all a matter of degree, and some do take it to extremes.
See first answer; on here, I've seen it more as a question than a declarative statement.
Other race? Bah. Is it a different subset within humanity? Sure - as it having blue eyes, or six toes, or hair loss. Any characteristics can be used to define a group; there are those who feel their personal strengths give them an advantage over others... regardless of the veracity of such statements, it is their belief to have. It is not up to you to judge others or change their mind because of their methods of adapting. What works for one will not work for another. The concept advocated of ASD supremacy seems extraordinarily out-there to me... I have some things I can do much better than most; other things I am relatively helpless/clueless as to what to do or how to react. Am I better than other people? In most cases, there will be something I can do better than another; at the same time, I feel confident in my knowledge that there are things others can do far superior to my efforts. Am different, and using those to my advantage instead of my detriment - and on that basis, I'm proud of myself. There are many I've encountered in life who do not make that choice.... so perhaps I allow myself a small sense of superiority in knowing that I have chosen this path instead of allowing it to rule me.
All groups and individuals have aspirations. Religions proclaim to 'save' their worshippers, for example. If you don't buy in, don't join. Optimism isn't a bad thing unless carried to the point of delusion.
See above: A lot of hurt people, and a lot of generalizations that are hard to recognize as such. People fear what they do not understand... is it surprising, given the impact to communication and understanding, that there would be fear, anger and hostility?
Even if not mandatory, the effects of discrimination (insurance, employment) can lead to such a system. At a young age, there may not be the same experience with groups or organizations to develop that sense of caution when such options are proffered.
I'm proud of who I am, what I accomplish, and where I am headed. This includes AS. If you have a problem with that... well, that is exactly what it is - your problem. That other people have disparate viewpoints does not change who I am or what I believe, and if it works for them without hurting others, I'm all for it. Sometimes, we need to see the end of the tunnel, even if we only tell ourselves that it is there, in order to keep our feet moving in progress.
M.
Your posts always blow me away : ) I have to agree with you on all that.
Dean, sweety, I think you're way overreacting. It's not this bad.
Most of us when we claim superiority are joking, it's just a response to being different, being ostracized.
I'm about to marry an NT. He's just about the coolest person ever. But we shouldn't pretend that some really ignorant NTs can't be nasty as all get-out...the same way some Aspies can be.
I am not militant about my AS, I don't want to start a war. This is a haven for people who are frustrated. Sometimes we say things because we're venting.
ps. Some of us really are better at certain things. We just have deficits too, so it evens out.
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?Evil? No. Cursed?! No. COATED IN CHOCOLATE?! Perhaps. At one time. But NO LONGER.?
Asperger's syndrome is a happy genetic accident.
I think it does. Aspies are highly rational thinkers. The question is; is that wholly desirable? I've seen people here say that if all but their closest friends and family dropped dead tomorrow they wouldn't blink, and that this selfish approach to emotions is good because it's "rational".
Perhaps, but from personal experience I am learning that things are changing for the better. The younger generation is more tolerant, period. Of gays, of aspies, of everybody.
All things are possible, but see above. I'm not good with conspiracy theories.
It is possible for aspies to become closer to God than NTs because of our monastic temperament, but it is certainly not automatic. Have you noticed how many of us are atheists?
Other race? Maybe. Other culture? Definitely. More evolved? Probably not. We have talents useful for society, but so do different groups of NTs. I see the world in a hierarchal light, but even a stratified society must acknowledge that it takes all kinds.
I think that what these people are trying to say is that SCIENCE will save the world. The second part of this syllogism involves how many aspies are gifted in science. Therefore, aspies will save the world using science. There's a fallacy of the accident as well as a converse fallacy of the accident in there. So maybe we're not completely rational.
No. Both Hitler and Ghandi were by all accounts NTs. Evil tends to be equally distributed among different groups.
I don't know if I can deny this one. With insurance companies as nasty as they are, this hypothetical may be quite probable.
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I think it does. Aspies are highly rational thinkers.
This is way too much of a generalisation and sort of annoys me. I have an interest in logic and like to think I've developed an eye for spotting fallacies, but I've seen plenty of people here make great jumps in logic with little precedent.
I think it does. Aspies are highly rational thinkers.
This is way too much of a generalisation and sort of annoys me. I have an interest in logic and like to think I've developed an eye for spotting fallacies, but I've seen plenty of people here make great jumps in logic with little precedent.
A more accurate statement might be that those on the spectrum are more systemic thinkers, logic being one possible system employed. Other irrational systems are also possible; it is the form, not the content, that is the common element. Does this wash clean with you?
M.
_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.
For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Why the caps lock? Why such inflammatory language if you aren’t offended? Is it just for effect? Does it make you feel tough? The way you write makes you sound like a typical internet troll.
Sorry Marshall you're the one being incredibly rude, DeanFoley is simply frustrated and stating his opinion, you on the other hand are throwing personal insults.
I’m responding to his nasty demeanor more than his opinion. The thing he posted is drooling with sarcasm. Why talk in CAPS and insert all over the place? It looks really immature to me. He comes off as having a worse attitude than the people he’s criticizing.
I’m aware of all that. Superiority is a subjective opinion anyways so I don’t even see the validity in anyone making such claims. Bacteria and insects are superior to humans in many ways (i.e. they can survive in much more hostile environments). Of course we all think we are superior to the “lower” life forms but what do we have to back it up? Why is intelligence so special? It all seems kind of self serving to me but I digress.
Anyways, yes. It isn’t right to have a superiority complex and talk down to people. I never said I disagree with this. I was just taking a more analytical view and also saying that I can sympathize with people even though I might not agree with them.
Self criticism within our community is a good thing I think but this attitude that we have to hammer everyone over the head with their faults just grates on me. What does such nastiness and sarcasm accomplish?
I think it does. Aspies are highly rational thinkers.
This is way too much of a generalisation and sort of annoys me. I have an interest in logic and like to think I've developed an eye for spotting fallacies, but I've seen plenty of people here make great jumps in logic with little precedent.
A more accurate statement might be that those on the spectrum are more systemic thinkers, logic being one possible system employed. Other irrational systems are also possible; it is the form, not the content, that is the common element. Does this wash clean with you?
M.
I can't say it does. On the contrary logic concerns the form, and not necessarily the content.