Fantastic Article about Autism and Astrology!

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The trouble with treating Autism/AS/Aspergers as an entity with an astrological chart is that what was born in 1942 was not a person, but an idea/concept, and so the astrological progressions based on that date will indicate/reflect the "life" of that idea, rather than any actual autist/Asperger/AS population, ( because that has always existed ).

The idea has certainly had a very exciting life, born during the war years, almost lost for a few years, associated with schizophrenia for many more, before growing up and, in its late twenties splitting off all on its own, linked with nurture arguments to begin with, then with genetic ones, etc, and at intervals being divided up into smaller ones, almost as if it were reproducing ... ( is there a planet which might indicate fertility/family? )

So with the conjunctions, trines, oppositions, etc, what interpretation is actually appropriate? It isn't "us", the people "with" AS/Aspergers, that are being referred to, but the idea, the label, the notion.

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Physical experiments support non-locality. Google up on the failure of Bell's Inequalities.

ruveyn

For instance, the fact that Virgo is very important in the natal chart of Autism, ( the idea ), may indicate rather the "geekiness" of such an approach, compartmentalising/dividing people up on that basis, ( the criteria of Kanners and/or Asperger ), and the fundamental "naivety"/clinical blindness of such an idea/concept.

That Saturn and Uranus are in conjunction at the birth of the idea might be a reflection of the Saturnian tendency to suppress and control, mixed with Uranian revolutionary power, involved in the concept itself rather than anything to do with what we, AS/Aspergers, are likely to be like, or with any experiences the AS population might have.

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on malefic and benefit planets.....the nature of time....and the canary's warning- canary [possibly dead canary] in the mineshaft indicating there isn't enough oxygen present to support life

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my somewhat unconventional view is that MALEFIC planets [including the nodes which operate like planets in their effects] while considered to cause misery, it doesn't have to be so. and that BENEFIC planets while being viewed as pleasure causers, and making life 'easy'...bleh.... planetary energies are all helpful and positive, we simply need to learn how to best utilize them. granted, some things in life are incredibly difficult, but successful resolution of those challenges may offer the greatest thrills life has to offer... as well as the greatest financial, spiritual and emotional rewards. not to mention 'character' building which is for the most part overrated.

we really really need All the planetry energies and to feel that some of them are bad or evil while others are good and helpful.......isn't a very pragmatic or reasonable assumption. the planetary forces work together, not in isolation. if it were possible to surgically remove one of them, everything would come to a grinding halt. well that's my take for what it's worth.

it is entirely possible [yet a little hard to accept] that the planets with the greatest energy [the nodes] are absolutely the most helpful - even if it Is analagous to sleeping with rattlesnakes. next in high frequency energies are the outer planets -uranus, neptune and pluto, followed by saturn and jupiter as the next most potent energies. i suggest there is a direct correlation between extent of usefulness and intensity of energy or degree of power.

it Takes more to Accomplish more. if you want to achieve your goals, you will most likely have to spin your nightmares and challenges into pure gold.

alchemy.


while it is completely open to speculation at this point........
i believe those of us on the spectrum have been neurologically fitted and forced to use the nodes' energies on a daily basis, especially those of Rahu. it may be built into our physiology to accommodate these energies like they were food to keep us alive. the general NT normal public, on the other hand, is only confronted with the nodes' energies in a crisis. and for the most part they [NTs] can avoid such encounters like the plague, which of course is what a normal person would want to do. we, however, may be unable to avoid such stresses and crises, hightened states of consciousness, unique perceptions and bizarre sensory experiences. hand flapping, head banging, fleeing to our cave of sanctuary.....just HOW is it possible to process the things we must endure. well, we're figuring out how to do it. please dear NTs be patient with us.

which goes a very very long way in explaining why we've been ostracized, bullied, and....avoided like the plague. nevertheless it behooves us to consider the possibility that the universe knows what it is doing and our purpose is to help 'seed' the coming earth changes and speed up the frequencies of planet earth just enough to enable certain necessary shifts midwifeing the age of aquarius to successful commencement on planet earth. 3 of 9. we can all atest to the fact that the labor is intense and excruciatingly painful. so maybe the universe has 'volunteered' us to be midwifes.

kind of like holding open the GATE

i don't know what a transformer is, but i've heard of step-down transformers. i wonder if there are also step-up transformers. do we exist in order to perform the functions of both step-up and step-down transformers, if there are such things.....just a thought....

nodal frequencies are extremely "my way or the highway" and not in an egoistic way because nodes blast egos to smitherines; rather in a "canary in the mineshaft" way. what a difference that makes in quality of life. one could make a case that for the autistic, the equivalent of several lifetimes worth of experiences are being crammed into one life. sort of like time dilation, or contraction....the one that makes time pass very slowly....

i once was on acid (lsd) and i could swear that it took several hours for the second hand on a clock to move one second. that's what autism is like much of the time, that is ordinary daily life, for many of us. we get used to it even if we don't like it.

I don't think it's correct to say that we use them, ( except in so far as they/the patterns formed by their predictable movements provide a powerful tool for self-analysis/meditation/connection with the world through astrology). They are like a picture of "us", parts of the same system, intimately connected with us, but on a different scale.

That's not such an unconventional attitude anymore; more and more astrologers, ( as tarot readers do increasingly with the cards ), are choosing to treat the planets, etc, as "neutral"/"natural" symbols, indicating/reflecting processes/factors which we are likely to find more or less difficult/easy to deal with depending on previous development/evolution/attitude.


Are the nodes really as important as that?

It took me years to realise just how crucial the outer planets were in the representation of things, perhaps because their longer cycles didn't make much sense to me when I was only 20.


I get that feeling, when I have managed to recover from overload long enough and deeply enough to notice how tiny things affect me immensely, ( which I have increasingly done in recent years, rather than seeking top-up stimulation to camouflage/disguise my state of burnout/overload as I used to do ).
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Last edited by ouinon on 11 Jan 2009, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the exact time recorded on your birth certificate is the only reliable time. however i have used the time the mother remembers if it is somewhat precise. if the mother says the time of birth was quarter of ten in the morning...that's a lot better than saying the child was born around 10 am.

i've had people tell me they were born in the middle of the day and i say ---what does that mean? then they say they were born at noon. forget it. i'm not doing that chart.

in vedic astrology, which is the kind i do, an absolutely precise birth time is essential which means birth certificate only.

I only practice Western, know the basics of Vedic but definitely do not practice that. I want to learn more about it though. Unfortunately countries like Canada and the UK do not print birth time on certificates. The only way to help with that is to do a rectification. I also didn't think that Vedic astrologers used the 3 outer planets, is that true?

i was amplifying the meaning of the nodes in order to explain much of what is going on in autism. all for the purpose of putting our intense problems into the perspective they deserve so hopefully we can look at the situation with a bit of detachment and come up with a solution. for western astrology the nodes are insignificant with the north node [rahu] considered slightly benefic. way wrong in terms of vedic astrology.

go with what i quoted from Frawley prior to the page numbers. everything else is my personal opinion. when Frawley indicates that the energies are very difficult to handle, he means every word of it. admittedly it takes practice and uber skill to deal with these energies in a positive and productive fashion.

i'm becoming convinced that we need to look closely at any major relationships between saturn and uranus since they were conjunct @ 29 taurus 1942. conjunctions, oppositions, trines, squares, sextiles.

because of the way autism is perceived, we find ourselves in a predicament. in terms of how things got as bad as they are....any clues we discover could prove helpful in extricating ourselves from social disparagment, pity, intimidation, ostracizing and exile. i'd rather not even think about cure or extermination. but to deny we could be on the brink of extinction or annihilation is to engage in wishful thinking.

my pov is that people with autism should be considered as pioneers. here's what my book on zodiacal symbology says about 29 taurus (actually 29.17 taurus is read as 30 taurus):

"under the influence of the planet mars. a huge ironstone rolling down a mountain-side strikes a clump of hard flint, causing a bright fiery flash.....denotes a venturesome and determined spirit who will dare and do much to attain his ambitions. the earlier life will be filled with struggles and beset with difficulties which, as he advances in years, will enable him to gain the experience necessary to make his name known and his ideas respected. it is a symbol of forcefulness."

if there is any truth to that, people on the spectrum will eventually be appreciated, possibly even respected....

hmmm....all i can say is birth certificates or some other means of determining exact time of birth are quite important in the practice of astrology. next best is the mother's memory. but most mothers are too involved with labor and exhaustion to pay much attention to the time of birth.

regarding uranus, neptune and pluto --- most vedic astrologers don't use them.

Oh believe me I know, but I am also one of those exceptions that remembers the exact minute that my kids were born. A benefit of being under the spectrum I guess.

Saturn-Uranus Aspects Since 1942


1948 sextile 1 time
1951-52 square 3 times
1956-57 trine 4 times
1965-67 opposition 4 times Saturn-Pisces op Uranus-Virgo
1972-74 trine 3 times (almost 4)

**Oct 75 square in fixed signs leo scorpio, near exact for 2 weeks!! !**
1976-77 square 3 more times (total 4)

1979-80 sextile 3 times

1988 conjunction 3 times (sag. only conjunction since 1942)

1996-97 sextile 3 times
1999-00 square 3 times
2002-03 trine 3 times (1st time @full moon, pluto station retrogr)


Presently Saturn-Virgo op Uranus-Pisces
2008-09 opposition 3 times
11-4-08 @18.58
2-5-09 @20.39
9-15-09 @24.43

interesting...
if the above aspect list is more or less accurate and complete:

the only times saturn and uranus have been in opposition since 1942 has been [and is] on the virgo/pisces axis. we're presently going through round 2.

Aug 1965 to Jan 1967
Nov 2008 to Sept 2009****



of lesser import perhaps but still notable is that the only conjunction since 1942 has also been in a mutable sign. and autism recognition began with conjunction in gemini [could it be significant that the planets never did achieve exact conjunction in gemini?] which covers all the mutable signs with either conjunctions or oppositions.

Great tension at the centre of the idea/label "autism" at the moment? A growing/fundamental/sudden weakness at the heart of it? The last Saturn-Uranus opposition was in the mid-60's, a time when the very concept of mental illness/abnormality was under attack, criticised, by the revolutionaries of the time, ( eg; R. D. Laing, and Thomas Szasz ), as being oppression by society of certain minorities within it, etc.

The same sort of questioning/challenging that the Neurodiversity movement has been doing/is doing right now in fact.

I think that something else to look out for is where those planets are in relation to their "natal"/1942 positions. For instance first and second Saturn returns were 1971 and 2000, both of which points could be said to mark the culmination of serious rethinking/revising/researching of the idea/concept autism, and new, ( perhaps unfortunately "renewed" ), approaches to it.

The first Uranus Return will be in 2025-6, ( just after another important Saturn transit ), which could herald a revolution in the field.

But as it is an idea/concept which is in some ways divisive, alienating, controlling/repressive, aswell as thought and research-provoking, I am not sure whether powerful transitory ( planetary ) oppositions ( to "natal" positions ), would be something to welcome/celebrate or not. One series of such oppositions, in the late 1970's and early 80's, seemed to have expressed itself as horror/shock and fear in reaction to the ( relatively )"new"/unfamiliar, ( to most people ), idea/name/label.

I think it is important not to confuse the life of the concept/idea with the lives/experiences of AS people, ( a population that has probably always existed, not just since 1942 ). Astrological indices suggesting that autism, ( the idea born in 1942 ), is "going through an easy patch", for example, should not be seen as indicating that AS/autism spectrum people will be too. Although the image it has in the public eye, and the prevailing attitude in society towards neurological difference, will obviously have an impact on them.

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Me too, I was busy with a two to four year old over that period, and in fact had not yet heard of Aspergers, but, to follow on from my above post, I would say that it marked the real beginning of the Neurodiversity movement, which challenges the whole notion of mental abnormality/difference as problem/disease.

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very insightful and important comments ouinon
thanks to Lynn's article, hartzofspace, ouinon and lionesss for motivation driving our astrological research and conclusions. [thoroughly realize the infinitesimal proportion of people interested in this but i'm obsessed with it]

regarding aspect list -
potentially there are four stages during which time autism theory - including public recognition, possible causes, treatment methods, public assistance and how to socially deal with it in an equitable way - may pass through or evolve through 4 successive levels. these levels or stages of development may be a convenient way of organizing research and looking at historical development and changes in approach towards the autism spectrum. something i find intriguing..i'm just wondering if we will ever figure out a way to use autism so as to be a benefit to society as opposed to being an annoyance to the NT community and potential depletion of energy and resources.



I. 1942-1965 ........dawning recognition to first virgo/pisces op

II. 1965-1975 ........October 1975 the planets dance @ near exact square for
........2 weeks. saturn-leo sq uranus-scorpio @1.21-2.16

III. 1975-2003 ........from aug 02 to june 03 the planets trine in air signs
........gemini and aquarius. 8-21-02 coincides w/full moon and
........pluto beginning its station to retrograde
........1975 to 2003 should show enormous progress from a
........totally negative stance toward autism transitioning to one
........of greater social acceptance as we begin to empower ourselves

IV. 2003-2009 ........second virgo/pisces op 2008-09....summary of what's
........been accomplished and where do we go from here
........positive aspects of autism need research & emphasis





hoping for some feedback ---

a better understanding of the mutable types may enable a better understanding of autism spectrum. can anyone at WP relate to this:



------David Frawley, "The Astrology of the Seers", pp. 111-112

"Mutable types need to have more initiative, daring and willingness to act. They need to set aside their thoughts and work through their actions. They also need independence, firmness, consistency, and peace. Above all, they need to direct their sensitivity in a more conscious direction so that they are not so easily disturbed by things, so that they use their sensitivity consciously as a tool rather than have it react against them unconsciously."
[that last sentence is awesome and probably applies to most of us]

"[Mutable types] have many talents, interests, curiosities, and skills. They are prone to be indecisive and may find it difficult to act. In addition, they may be inconsistent and unable to stick to things. They are often mental types who like to think, calculate, worrry, or reflect, and they can become too introverted or overly preoccupied with themselves. They more commonly suffer from mental or nervous disorders, immune system derangements, and allergies. They are often agile on a physical level, particularly when young, but have poor endurance. They can be very talkative or communicative, though they may not have anything specific to say."

"By their ability to exchange things, they can become good businessmen, yet they may also get caught in their ideas and calculations about things."

"When highly evolved, they are capable of great sensitivity and broad comprehension."

"When less evolved, they can be erratic, unreliable, and neurotic."

"...mutable signs are the best for developing the mind..."