Antipsychotics / Neuroleptics For Mental Disorders- Comments

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These articles sound like Scientology or some other pseudo-religious anti-psychiatry and anti-drug claptrap (e.g. "Nevertheless, I am pretty sure that the lives of the ones suffering from ASDs will be very much happier, when through certain efforts of others that their surroundings and environments just turn out to be delightfully pleasant to them" - who are these delightfully mystical "others"? Not CBT counsellors, I assume).

Well, to clarify things up, the "others" here refer to the ones who are close to and anyone who really care about the mental conditions and health cares as well as well-beings of the ones suffering from ASDs and other mental illnesses and disorders.


My reading of this forum is that most members are very moderate in their balance of medication and non-medication therapies, and have a healthy scepticism of the benefits of drugs (and therapy in general, as opposed to lifestyle solutions to the problems associated with ASDs). Drugs have a small, but valuable, role in living with ASD.


Next, I would like to point out to you and the other intended persons that reading is one thing, but what actually happens in reality is another story. And the actual fact is that the medical professions anywhere nowadays have tended to be primarily and mostly money and profit-oriented in such a way that the related medical professionals, specialists, personnel etc would purposely over-medicate their paying patients towards such goals for money and profits such as what I have observed so far over these years. Whilst the related patients would just be obedient and credulous enough to follow the professional instructions of such money and profit-oriented doctors so as to willingly over-medicate themselves. In short, these are simply the scenarios and phenomena that actually happen ubiquitously in reality nowadays.


And, that would include the dispensing of the outdated drugs such as what I have mentioned in my prior post above by those doctors for the goal of profit-maximising. Hence, that is the reason why I post those articles to create a higher level of awareness among the users of such drugs for mental illnesses and disorders about the inherent hazards of over-reliances upon such drugs and medications.


These articles sound like Scientology or some other pseudo-religious anti-psychiatry and anti-drug claptrap


As for the remark above, please do not make any arbitrary comments about my posts when you hardly know anything about the knowledges and practices of psychologies, neurologies, psychiatries, psychotherapies etc. And one more thing, I do not believe in Scientology and I mean no offences for anything I have replied.

I do very well on an atypical antipsychotic (Geodon). I'm a danger to myself and my parents because of my melt downs when I'm not on it. Sure, I'd rather not be on it, but we we lowered the dose by 20% very recently, I started having more melt downs and couldn't handle frustration as well and was taking it out on people about a month in. I honestly need this drug to make it from day to day, and I'm glad I decided to go on it (I proposed it to my neuropsych).

That sounds quite ok as long as precautionary measures are taken against the potentially eventual manifestations of the side effects of such a medication such as what I have mentioned in my prior posts above.


Meanwhile, while taking the related medication, maybe you can try at your very own convenience and willingness to slowly associate yourself with anything positive and non-medicational that would calm you down and cheer you up naturally such as listening to some soft, gentle musics etc, so as to enable yourself in the long-term, to exercise enough self-controls to slowly bring down your angers, frustrations, and other negative feelings gradually step-by-step.

Maybe you'll find something that works better SuperTrouper. My son has had to switch meds quite a bit trying to find what works, and we're still tweaking it to give him the best help we can. Without his meds he'd have to be restrained, and even with them he needs a lot of help. There are abuses of medication, but that is no reason to avoid it when it's appropriate and needed. The right medication, properly monitored for side effects, can make a big difference, especially if it's combined with other appropriate therapies.

I do hope you're working on meltdown-prevention strategies; medication may be helpful, but education is a great deal more permanent. I think if my parents had put me on antipsychotics back when I had "violent meltdowns" (read: self-injury and uncontrolled and unaimed kicking/hitting), I might never have been motivated to learn to predict and prevent them. Nowadays, I can almost always back off before things get truly difficult.

It's different, I suppose, if when you melt down you actually aim at people rather than just forgetting that other people exist and hitting anything nearby. That could hurt somebody and it's one of the few reasons I'd consider it logical to take antipsychotics for autism. But I think that even in the cases where the medication can't be phased out, it can often be reduced if the environment is changed to be friendlier and the person learns how to self-regulate better. Probably will take a good deal of time, though.

The other thing is that suddenly dropping neuroleptics (even just a dose reduction) can cause withdrawal effects that make it seem like if you were off it things would be utterly terrible. But things often get better if you stay off them long enough for those effects to go away. Not that I know for sure this is happening for anyone, but if you ever try to get off them and encounter that problem, it's something to keep in mind. (I was on them for several years, often at very high doses, so it took me months to get even partly back to normal after going off them.)

I have experienced such a situation before many years ago when I attempt to quit the antipsychotics and neuroleptics.

Well, my advice is that the non-medicational efforts to improve one's mental conditions as well as to strengthen one's self-wills and self-determinations, well, such efforts simply have to be put in and instilled slowly and patiently step-by-step in order to achieve the desired positive cognitive effects which come from one's own mental abilities rather than through the artificial effects of medications. And that may take some years to achieve that in certain cases.

In short, a great deal of patience, tolerances and determinations are required on the long-term to achieve that.

Just because I take meds doesn't mean I don't use other strategies to calm down, of course. It's just that without the meds, the other strategies are useless. I need both to function.

I have a million "calm down" strategies, mostly involving cats. Especially my cat. She sits with me when I melt and helps me a lot. Or my mom. Or call my best friend. Or do a puzzle. Or watch Alton Brown. Or look at Lolcats. Or listen to purring. Or play with my dollls. Lots of things.

Oh, your replies just sound so sensibly rational, thoughtful and totally inoffensive at all. Hence, I believe that all your hard works will simply not be wasted and will graudally bring forth very much better and better mental conditions to you as time goes by. All in all, just keep up the good works and be patient about it and you will make it one day eventually.

Brief Summary of The Posts Above - What Medications Can Really Do For Mental Disorders In Reality



Well, objectively the point is that all such medications for mental disorders, including the antipsychotics / neuroleptics are important and extremely much more useful than anything else in serving the primary purpose of bringing down and suppress all the hardly controllable and involuntary symptoms of the mental disorders such as violent emotional outbursts, purposeless abrupt traumatic reactions, various phobia behaviours, miscellaneous involuntary and uncontrollable deep hallucinations / delusions etc. This is the case especially and particularly when no other interpersonal efforts from other persons could achieve such a purpose.



However, when it comes to genuinely treating the mentally-ill people so as to enable their mental conditions and cognitive sanities to get practically and realistically better and better in a permanently sustainable manner from time to time as well as to let them feel more and more confident about themselves, that would be another different story. This is due to the very undisputed fact that all the antipsychotics / neuroleptics and any medications for mental disorders, well, no matter how advanced they are, there is simply no way for such medications to deliver any of the actual healing effects that are equivalent to the interpersonal counselling therapies / emotional supports from the close ones etc, that the mentally-ill people need for further genuine improvements of their mental conditions (so as to enable them so slowly and graudally regain their actual sanities and cognitive / mental abilities from time to time) and their final recoveries in the end. This is mainly due to the fact that when it comes to mental illnesses, no medications would be able to permanently, irreversibly, and particularly, realistically and practically change the mentally psychological, rather than the bodily / metabolism-related physiological aspects of what and how the mentally-ill people would perceive, feel, think about their surroundings, environments and the people they deal with, as well as their resultant actions, reactions, behaviours based on their respective subsequent outcomes of those 3 key factors. Whilst normally, such medications for mental illnesses, with their artificial neurological effects, would merely just serve the purpose of temporarily and mechanically numb the cognitive senses of their users so as to artificially make them "unable to feel and think about anything at all" throughout the effective period of each dosage of such medications. And as such, medications for mental disorders alone would thus not be able to realistically, practically and genuinely enable to get the mentally-ill people totally cured in the end. Hence, other non-medicational efforts as mentioned, explained and elaborated in detail in my prior posts above are thus required and indispensably necessary to enable the mentally-ill people to achieve the realistic, genuine and practical long-term real improvements for their mental conditions and sanities gradually step-by-step towards the path of full recoveries.



All in all, such constructive non-medicational impersonal and (or) interpersonal efforts and emotional supports are very much important in reinforcing and strengthening the confidences, self-wills, determinations and sanities of the mentally-ill people in helping them to recover from their mental illnesses gradually, realistically and sustainably step-by-step.



Other Related Information :

http://www.healthau.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=5617 (Psychological Analysis For Mental Disorders)

My concern, as a physician, is that the industrial practice of medicine no longer allows doctors and patients to deal effectively with treating disorders.

Insurers place significant limits on the costs that they will support for a patient. Generally speaking, a GP has about 7 minutes to hear a patient's problem and to deal with it. Given the economic pressure to pay for an office and staff, as well as to earn a reasonable income, GPs have to keep moving people through the system. If I was a GP (I'm not, fortunately) every time I spent half an hour with one patient, that would be getting only one fee, rather than the four fees that I could have earned by seeing four patients during that time. In that circumstance, it is all too easy to identify the problem and to reach for "the pad."

I don't think that is good medical practice, and most physicians I know don't think it is either (especially the ones stuck in this kind of system). My GP works in a practice where the insurer pays him a lump sum each year--whether I visit the office once, or 50 times. In this practice he has no financial disincentive to spend more time with his patients. If we saw this kind of service replicated, I think we might see the quality of primary care improve.

My experience is in the Canadian health system, with a single payer insurance system--but in this respect, most insurance systems are similarly restrictive.

"Insurers place significant limits on the costs that they will support for a patient. Generally speaking, a GP has about 7 minutes to hear a patient's problem and to deal with it. Given the economic pressure to pay for an office and staff, as well as to earn a reasonable income, GPs have to keep moving people through the system. If I was a GP (I'm not, fortunately) every time I spent half an hour with one patient, that would be getting only one fee, rather than the four fees that I could have earned by seeing four patients during that time. In that circumstance, it is all too easy to identify the problem and to reach for "the pad."



Yup, I totally agree with what you say.



As a matter of fact, the modern day medical profession nowadays have almost and mostly become prevailingly and ubiquitously money and profit-oriented in such a sense that a substantial majority of the medical professionals, personnel, specialists as well as general practitioners (GPs) anywhere are primarily, or rather, solely concerned with the medical fees that their prospective and existing patients can afford to pay them for their medical services in the first place as their one and only priority rather than the subsequent outcomes of their health cares and well-beings having received the so-called "medical treatments". In short, the modern day medical profession, rather than serving the purpose as a noble vocation, such as the scenario and phenomena in the distant past, it has actually deteriorated and derogatorily mutated nowadays into a commercial-like profit-seeking industry such as the other overtly profit-oriented business organisations.



Nevertheless, as far as psychotherapies for treating mental disorders are concerned, they can just take any formal and (or) informal and impersonal and (or) interpersonal non-medicational forms that would actually click to any of the mentally-ill patients as long as any of such methods could effectively provide the necessary genuine and obvious emotional supports and calming forces / effects to realistically, practically, permanently and sustainably improve their mental conditions, self-wills, self-determinations, confidences and cognitive sanities gradually for the better and better from time to time. In short, formally seeking professional treatments from the related medical professionals is not necessarily the only one and viable option available to the mentally-ill patients to genuinely improve their mental conditions for the long-term in a permanently sustainable manner gradually step-by-step towards the path of substantial and full recoveries.



Related Information :

http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1655440#i (Why Non-medicational Interpersonal Or (And) Impersonal Emotional Comforts, Reliefs, Supports etc Are So Essential As A Part of The Holistic Approach For Mental Disorders ?)

Included below is a conversation between me and the other third party about mental disorders & illnesses, the advantageous, disadvantageous of the medications for such illnesses and disorders as well as how such medications actually work in reality and what purposes they are supposed to serve along with several flaws, defects and demerits of the modern mainstream medical science and system. Next I hope that the information provided will be useful and helpful to the intended readers.



Remarks from the other person :

"Speaking of neurotransmitters, much is made by the medical community about their alleged central role in depression and anxiety. However, this is largely unproven."




My replies :

Well, it's totally undeniable that human bodies depend on the neurological mechanisms of neuron, brains, neuron networks, miscellaneous nervous systems, the many types of neurotransmitters chemical for all our bodily functionings which include cognitive and movement abilities etc. And that's the reason why the people with Parkinsonism, Dementia, Alzheimers etc whose brain cells and neurons have been substantially destroyed (and hence no neurotransmitter chemicals can be released / secreted out of them) could not think, act and behave properly at all.



Remarks from the other person :

"There is, for instance, no lab test that can be done to show that depression or anxiety sufferers do indeed suffer from low serotonin levels. And even if depression and anxiety sufferers indeed DO tend to suffer from low serotonin levels, this does NOT establish a causal relationship between low serotonin and depression/anxiety. Low serotonin may simply be a RESULT of suffering from anxiety disorder. Also, more than likely, serotonin is probably low only in specific parts of the brain (but normal or even above normal in other parts of the brain). All of this certainly explains why globally increasing serotonin levels with drugs like SSRIs typically does not give entirely satisfactory results. "



My replies :

In fact, the drugs like Prozac etc could only temporarily and artificially restore the chemical balance of the brains of the mentally-ill people by re-uptaking and maintaing the proper balance of dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitter chemicals of their brains. However, since such an artificial medical mechanism is all by way of "forced suppression" so as to artificially blocking any nerve and sensory impulses from getting sent and receive to and from the brains, and hence, artificially blocking the "neuron network traffics" the mental conditions of the related mentally-ill people would then suffer a greater relapse of their mental illnesses when the therapeutical effects of such "forced suppressions" of each dosage of the related medications just lapse completely, while the previously medication-forced- suppressed nerve and sensory impulses would just turn violent and out-of-control (when they are no longer artificially suppressed by medications anymore) and manifest in far worse uncontrollable and involuntary behavioural and personality changes in the related mentally-ill people. Hence, that's why in such cases, the cures are worse than the diseases themselves .



So, that's why I have said that other non-medicational efforts such as what I have mentioned and explained earlier on in my previous posts are primarily important in genuinely and permanently restoring the sanities of the mentally-ill people bit by bit and step by step.


Remarks from the other person :

"As for antipsychotics and dopamine, once again, dopamine levels may be out of balance in people suffering from psychosis. But it is impossible to say whether this is the actual cause. And since, like antidepressants, antipsychotics generally do not produce entirely satisfactory results, I would suspect that there is probably MUCH more to psychosis than a simple chemical imbalance."



My replies :

As a matter of fact, everything has its shortcomings, flaws and defects. For example, in the case of people suffering from Tardive Dyskinesia, Dystonia and other movement disorders due to interruptions and disruptions to the synaptic activities of the neurotransmitter chemical dopamine, well, given that such fluidly and nearly totally transparent neurotransmitter chemical secreted by countless neurons and brain cells are hardly observable and distinguishable by any medical examinations such as MRI, CT-scannings etc whereby the people with Tardive Dyskinesia, Dystonia etc would obviously show their involuntary and uncontrollable movement disorders to the related doctors, nevertheless, no conclusive medical examinations, observations, diagnosis supported by any hard evidences can be given at the same time. So, that's why under such scenarios and phenomena, such movement disorders are labelled as "undiagnosed diseases".



Next, I suffer from Tardive Dyskinesia before and my efforts of seeking the mainstream treatments from the western medical science just turn out to be totally futile such as the scenarios and phenomena explained above. And the fact that my Tardive Dyskinesia movement disorders are totally cured once-and-for-all about 6 years ago through a totally needle-free acupuncture / acupressure technique, which has fully cured countless of people having the same problem as mine so far, and well, the flaw and defect of this acupuncture / acupressure technique is such that, regardless of the ongoing ample empirical evidences about its obviously evident and prompt efficacies, the mainstream western medical science still would not recognise the validity of it simply for the mere reason that the healing mechanisms of such a totally needle-free acupuncture / acupressure technique are not be able to be observed, explored and studied by them, regardless of its obviously evident, prompt and 100 % healing efficacies as supported by more and more countless empirical evidences.



In such a connection, what I wish to say is that for anything that we do not know or have not yet known, it doesn't mean that they are phoney, fallacious or non-existent.



All in all, under any circumstances, I firmly and reasonably believe that for any patients / people seeking treatments for any of their illnesses, especially the desperate ones, I reckon that they would want the best and most effective treatments for themselves under any circumstances and situations. Anyhow, for anyone seeking treatments for their illnesses, their sole and only purpose is to get their illnesses and disorders totally cured, and preferably, once and for all.


Further Details :

http://www.anxietyforum.net/forum/viewt ... highlight=

You are correct - there are some excellent drugs available.

Thanks for the feedbacks despite the fact that this is not the key point of the my very previous articles. So, I would appreciate if the intended readers would go through them correctly.

Please can you explain autism, correctly.