NTs' logic - YES, there is such a thing

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Yes, gossip is one of the biggest sources of learning for me. This is why I love gossip. I could gossip for hours on end without tiring. However, the gossipers themselves are often deluded (for the reasons I enumerated above) and not much of the info they give is useful.

Some insights on 2 and 3, Ephemerella.

I totally get what you are saying here, Ephemerella! The thing some people hate most is to be questioned. My mom calls it an "inquisition" and I have always done it. She can't stand it and accuses me of "obsessing" I don't think of it as obsessing, I think of it as learning, but mom doesn't like talking about it and gets angry and annoyed at me for bringing it up. Maybe it makes me look neurotic and nosey as well as paranoid. She thinks I am too interested in things she likes to consider superficial and meaningless. She thinks it's unimportant and I am making a big deal of it. "Much Ado About Nothing" as they say.


Yes, it does. I have learned not to because I have gotten bad reactions. Best to rely on tried and true politeness, direct inquiries and good manners. Otherwise they get angry.

The thing is, it's meaningless and unimportant to her because these things come so naturally to her. She understands them without even trying and can respond with similarly minimal effort. To her, you asking questions about these social interactions are almost like someone asking about putting one foot in front of the other and walking.

But to you and me, it's very important, because it doesn't come naturally and we find it confusing.

Well, I think your threads are great sources of learning. Here the info is distilled into a discussion form, in language and framing, that is concrete and helpful for us. Instead of abstract and mysterious, which is how NTs tend to talk about these things.

So your threads are great ways to digest ideas you raise and put them into an informed "lesson".

One of the best uses of this forum.

And discussion with other people can be more interesting than reading all those books (unless you want to major in sociology)!

I think it's a bit of a double standard because there's so many people interested in figuring others out. How many people ask "Is my boyfriend/girlfriend cheating on me? How can I tell?" It's the stuff that sells magazines like Cosmo. We aren't the only ones who ask such questions, apparently. Yet when I ask, I get told I am obsessing. I don't ask strange questions either, nor nosey ones. My questions are along the lines of "Do they hate me?" "Do they think I'm stupid?" "What did it mean when she did that?" Common questions, imo, that people I know overreact to. They get irritated over them so I stopped asking to spare myself their reaction.
It's generally a bad idea to question the motives of others, I have learned from experience. Confidence is what people want to see in others, even though I don't think I am particularly self assured. If you constantly inquire about other's motives or ask questions about your worth to them the people you ask will start gossiping about you when you aren't around, telling each other you are neurotic or paranoid and who knows what conclusion they reach. I know this has caused me problems in the past. Best to appear confident by not questioning others, even if you don't understand. You have to accept them face value, sometimes.
What seems to work is the direct approach, friendliness and politeness. If someone is quiet say "You're awfully quiet, is everything okay?" If they are keeping their distance, say, "It's okay, I don't bite, I promise!" If someone does something malicious confront them about it and tell them it's not appreciated and see their reaction to decide where to go from there.

I totally agree! I love these discussions. Of course, for that matter, I´m also quite interested in sociology...

Here's an interesting quote from a participant in Milgrams experiment (the famous one where people inflicted pain on others because they were ordered to):

"though I believed that I was hurting someone, I was totally unaware of why I was doing so. Few people ever realize when they are acting according to their own beliefs and when they are meekly submitting to authority… "

I wonder if it works the same with those with AS? I admit there are times in life when I keep quiet about my real beliefs, but I'm quite aware of "meekly submitting" at the time. Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the confrontation.

NT logic varies depending on how many people are in the room and who they are! Many times I've got on fine with someone 1-to-1, yet the same person displays comtempt to me when there are peers to impress. I'd always assumed they did this consciously, but maybe not. Maybe they are "totally unaware" of what they're doing.

Actually, this is not a hundred percent. There are cultures(on the Asian and African continents where people do not stare at the eyes of people).

I think the problem is not so much in asking the questions, but in HOW you ask the questions. You´re right, people like confidence and if they discover that you are vulnerable in some way, they will take advantage of it! (This is something I learned the hard way). So I always ask questions, now, about the other person´s behavior, and don´t put myself into the picture at all...(for instance- "why did so-and-so say that; is there something going on with him/her that I don´t know about?") I don´t judge, anymore, whether or not they like me, or even if it´s "my fault"- (at least, I don´t do this aloud). Very often, there is some kind of background social story, or history about the person that the NT knows about- (just because they are often more aware of these things than I am), and usually they are happy to enlighten me about it. If they don´t know, they just say they don´t know...(but if they´re women, they´re often happy to psychoanalyze and figure out the other person with me). But it´s very important that you put the problem more on the OTHER person, rather than yourself...(after all, they are the one who said/did the strange thing. Very often it´s not about you, even though it may seem like it is- but more about them).