According to Simon Baron Cohen, I can´t have AS!

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19 Apr 2009, 8:14 am

I looked up the Cambridge list I saw a few years ago and it didn't have the imagination criterion! In its place was:

I tend to turn any conversation back onto myself or my own topic of interest.

I don't know where the imagination item originates. There's another version of the list floating around the internet that's different to the CLASS clinic one as far as that item's concerned.

CLASS List

Morgana
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19 Apr 2009, 1:51 pm

outlier wrote:

Gee, well I DO have the tendency to do that!! ! Although I´ve been working on that, I think I´m getting better....

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19 Apr 2009, 2:01 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:

A free assessment? I wonder if they're still handing those out?

Anyway, it's an interesting theory - and it seems very plausible to me. A good demonstration of teamwork from the 3 of us, which once again isn't supposed to be an Aspie thing at all. I always did feel that all those diagnostic criteria about "no interest in teamwork/socialising/making others happy/sharing experiences" were deeply flawed. I for one am nearly always interested in things I'm not yet good at, and I'm sure that for Aspies it's often only the difficulties of doing them in realtime with competitive people that leads to a dulling of the desire to improve. Fascinating.

Well, yeah, I´m beginning to think that many of the stereotypes about "Aspie behavior" are flawed; at least, they don´t apply to everyone. It´s very often generalized, and based on observations of a small group of people. I think sometimes they are too rigid in their thinking.... :lol:

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19 Apr 2009, 3:02 pm

outlier wrote:

In its place was:

I tend to turn any conversation back onto myself or my own topic of interest.

Well, one thing's for sure - I'm 100% guilty of that charge....I used to put it down to my selfishness and egomania until I heard about AS, and I still periodically bend my will to fixing it, with little success.
Come to think of it, I'd best shut up - I'm in danger of doing the very thing I'm talking about by posting these very words. :oops:

outlier
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19 Apr 2009, 3:18 pm

^ Well I wouldn't mind.

That criterion is probably much more common in AS than the hating writing imaginitive stories one; a better item to include in such a list.

However, it's a bit strange they didn't have an imagination item in the CLASS list, since they have a whole set of imagination criteria in their AAA.

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19 Apr 2009, 3:20 pm

Morgana wrote:

It´s very often generalized, and based on observations of a small group of people. I think sometimes they are too rigid in their thinking.... :lol:

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19 Apr 2009, 3:34 pm

outlier wrote:

^ Well I wouldn't mind.

Kind of you to say so.

Quote:

That criterion is probably much more common in AS than the hating writing imaginitive stories one; a better item to include in such a list.

However, it's a bit strange they didn't have an imagination item in the CLASS list, since they have a whole set of imagination criteria in their AAA.

The whole AS thing reminds me of music - anybody trying to be completely objective about it ends up contradicting themselves.

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19 Apr 2009, 4:35 pm

I feel the biggest problem for far to long has been others have spoken about us as if we have no clue, I so agree with the Nation Autism society's words"nothing about us without us" it amuses me how misunderstood we are by many, even to the point many find the word autistic hard to say, of course due to ignorance stereo typing we all need to speak out and be proud, we are simply differently minded brilliant individuals and as diverse and different as those not on the autism spectrum, there is no one list to describe us all... autism as mysteries as the universe and there just happens to be some of the most brilliant minds to date on the autism spectrum, so if the so called professionals want to get it right ask us the ones that really know...

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Mikhaillost
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19 Apr 2009, 7:26 pm

I am diagnosted AS and I am taking writing fiction in college right now

Though I have found I am COMPLETELY unable to write using someone else's character... I can't even type his name...

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20 Apr 2009, 12:51 am

Thats another stereotype of AS. Basically, "People with AS are only interested in things that are concrete and based on facts, so they should only like fiction " That is not true, were not some fu*king robots or computers.

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20 Apr 2009, 1:30 am

Morgana wrote:

Okay...

For those of you who don´t know me, I am an undiagnosed female. I experience many similarities with AS, and, it seems like some sort of autistic spectrum disorder does much to clarify my life and behavior up until this point...

But, who knows? I just read, in a book about AS and relationships, that Simon Baron Cohen has devised a list of 10 important features of AS. Apparently, ALL 10 of these features need to be present in order to have AS. In looking over the list, I find that I do not have one of these important, required features. That is:

"I did not enjoy imaginative story writing at school"

Well....I did enjoy creative writing assignments; in fact, that was one of my favorite things to do! So, I guess I am exempt...(?)

As this is a "feature" of AS that I haven´t come across yet in my extensive reading, I was just curious what others have to say about it. Are there any diagnosed people out there who enjoyed imaginative story writing in school? Or, if this is an important feature of AS, can someone explain the logic of it? Or is it just another one of those "AS people have no imagination" things again...(?)

I think Baron Cohen is getting mixed up with "social imagination",i.e. the process of imagining,
or subconsciously predicting,how a social interaction is going to develop.As far as I'm aware,
outside of social interaction,those with AS and especially children are just as likely to have imaginative or creative thinking as anyone else.

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20 Apr 2009, 1:32 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

outlier wrote:

The whole AS thing reminds me of music - anybody trying to be completely objective about it ends up contradicting themselves.

I think that's why the Cambridge centre is attempting to make a stricter definition of AS. They have developed the AAA criteria to be more stringent than the DSM-IV, for instance. The checklist they made (used in the advert) is being mistaken for actual diagnostic criteria, which doesn't make sense to me; it's even got 10 items exactly--a round number--as befitting a checklist, not a set of diagnostic criteria.

I remember now that their set of AAA imagination criteria was preliminary, so that would explain why they didn't add such an item to the checklist in the advert. They weighted this set the least in the AAA because they were aware that many have artistic abilities, and have yet to determine its diagnostic use.

Mikhaillost wrote:

Though I have found I am COMPLETELY unable to write using someone else's character... I can't even type his name...

That's interesting. Would the typing of the name feel aversive?

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20 Apr 2009, 1:56 am

what the hell? I loved that and always will, and i'm diagnosed. Please list them all.

outlier
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20 Apr 2009, 2:24 am

^ They are on page 2.

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20 Apr 2009, 4:28 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

I for one am nearly always interested in things I'm not yet good at, and I'm sure that for Aspies it's often only the difficulties of doing them in realtime with competitive people that leads to a dulling of the desire to improve. Fascinating.

Me too! My viewpoint now is that the problem isn't with me. It's with the overly 'competitive' people. Unfortunately so much of our culture, from school to work, is set up to encourage competition, even though it isn't overtly so in many cases.

Working with other people when you really are a team is a wonderful experience. Accepting each others strengths and weaknesses is a challenge, it's not easy, but can be so rewarding. I feel as if I've been largely driven to pursue mainly solitary interests due to the unpleasantness of others who *must* win at all costs.

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31 Dec 2014, 5:28 am

I like the tests of baron cohen. But there are not diagnosis tests. Asperger can be diagnosed only through clinical judgement. Some tests, like eyes test, phisical prediction questionnaire (PPQ), picture sequencing test, social stories questionnaire and other are useful to assess the cognitive skills after diagnosis. Some tests like autism spectrum quotient, EQ, SQ, CHAT, and others are useful for screening, but a negative result do not exclude the ASD. I don't agree the extreme male brain theory. First when I found the tests of baron cohen, I did the EQ and SQ and I scored "opposite" to Aspergers (very high EQ and low SQ). After diagnosis, I did again the tests and I got same results. At eyes test, I scored 34/36 and at PPQ, 40/40. I think I have a extreme female brain or rather an androginous pattern both phisicaly and psychologicaly.

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