First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Hi Millie I really appreciate your comment, and I completely agree with many of the things you wrote that I have quoted above. The bolded portion I feel is particularly important. However, I think this thread is a great idea and I hope it continues because it can bring people closer together. In this world where people can have vastly different communication and socialization styles, the internet is kind of an "equalizer" and allows people to communicate and socialize in ways that weren't available or even thought of 20 years ago. So the potential for helping improve connections between people is enormous and untapped, and I feel this thread is a step in the right direction.

Hi DenvrDave, I see your point. I suppose my problem is with the nomenclature.....
I do believe communication between NT's and ASD people is vital...so long as we try to remember that variation and a multitude of answers to seemingly mysterious issues and social questions can come from anywhere and be answered in a plethora of ways. What I am learning is that what one NT person says is not necessarily replicated or agreed with, by another NT person. So, where is the "right" way or the correct answer? The danger is in the assumption that there is or are any! And equally, what an ASD person says is their experience or view is not necessarily replicated in the life of another with an ASD simply by virtue of the fact they are ALSO ASD.

In my view, that is the qualifier or the disclaimer that needs to be understood. And in actuality, it has taken me many years to get to this kind of place with regards to an intellectual understanding of "variation" in humans. I still struggle with it daily.
So..yes...I can agree that communication between diverse people is a good thing, and the net has in fact become an advocacy and a communication tool for the ASD community and that can indeed be a very good thing. I just feel the need here and there to express my views about the dangers of assumption regarding other humans, based on diagnostic labelling and divisions and little else. That is the part that seems a little silly to me.

There aren't any clearcut answers....

And that is what drives us aspies crazy about human beings .

Good question! I'm not sure there are any right or correct answers...there are only decisions we make on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour, and yes, minute-to-minute basis about how to deal with our various situations, and its up to each of us to decide whether we handled the situation the right or correct way, based on our own definition of "right" and "correct." What works for one person may not work for another, and what works in one situation may not work in another no matter how similar the two situations appear to be.



I completely agree I try very hard to not assume anything about anybody.

My impression is that different people have black and white thinking in different areas. For me, I'm sometimes black and white with emotional stuff, but don't tend to be with intellectual stuff, and often notice people being more black and white in their thinking than me. I think that it's likely that autistic people are prone to black and while thinking in different ways, different areas, that average people.

So, maybe what you are noticing is specific areas where the autistic people you have known are more prone to black and white thinking than you, but you might not be noticing areas where the opposite is true.

To NTs,

This may be an offshoot of the "Black/White" thinking, but why do so many tend to assume something, especially if its not true. For instance, because I havent had a long term relationship, a lot of people around me think im homosexual (not doing any orientation bashing, i just dont like assumptions). Or assuming something will work just because it looks good on paper, but reality makes a mess of it. Ive never found a true use for assumptions (save some possibilities in science and math where things can be quantified to prove something), so what is their purpose (assumptions in a social sense i guess)?

Since people don't plain say what they're thinking, there's a lot of second guessing that goes on. The purpose of assumption on a social level is an attempt at social efficiency by removing other time-inefficient perspectives. A person grows up being surrounded by stereotypes and is told from people they respect (or at least trust their word to be generally true) about stereotypes that they don't interact with. Since they've grown up with applying assumptions to others, they will continue to do so as long as a feeling of social adequacy is awarded to them and they continue to stay 'right' about those assumptions.

People assume because they're too lazy to find out what the truth really is.

Good question, and thanks for asking

An assumption is a form of prejudice, as in pre-judging a person's character based on how they look or act. Everyone makes assumptions and has prejudices because it is human nature and this probably arose out of the need to survive. I think one reason that people make assumptions in social situations is because that is how they were taught by their parents (or primary caregivers) for survival purposes, not because people are lazy as a previous poster suggested. An easy example is when parents teach their kids not to talk to strangers, the underlying assumption is "assume all strangers have ill-intent, instruct the children not to talk to strangers, and then the children will be safe from the 0.1% of people who actually may be of ill-intent." Beyond this, our parents (or primary caregivers) ingrain in us all sorts of assumptions, prejudices, and taboos that we are hardly aware of and carry with us into adulthood. The key thing, and something I try to practice, is recognizing the prejudices within ourselves and overcoming them as much as possible.

This is more a curious thought than a question, but if anyone has a theory, I would be interested. Why is it that you and I and other quote NTs know this, but many AS folks do not? Is it an attribute of having AS or is it an attribute of how people who have AS are often treated. One could present bullying as evidence for the way folks with AS are treated, but on the other hand, I sometimes have difficulty communicating with some folks who have AS. It's as if we speak different languages sometimes even though we both speak English.

From what i can tell, its a case of quantification vs emotion as a result of "brain wiring." In the ASD world, things have to be measured, explained, taught, seen, handled . . . we may come up with an idea or theory, but we try not to assume (likely due to a bad event in the past). We would sooner solve a Sudoku puzzle than, say, attempt Survivor because of all the social assumptions: is A worth working with, is B going to screw me over, does group 1 value my presence? Though using the language barrier could be closest metaphor given how often Americans cant always understand British, Northerners and Southerners dont always understand the other, etc. When talking to someone within the Spectrum, you have to have the mindset of "What is fact" as opposed to "What does this fact mean to me?" (granted, folks in the spectrum do share the latter, but its more through the sense of intellectual interest as opposed to emotional interest). This is just my take on the matter . . .

Hi willmark, good question/curious thought I am not convinced that most NTs think or even care about their own prejudices and how their upbringings affect their dealings with people on a day-to-day basis. My impression is that most NTs are rather complacent and feel a sense of entitlement based on the circumstances of their birth rather than earning anything through hard work or a process of learning, experience, and self-improvement. So to directly answer your question, I don't thnk most other NTs know much about interpersonal relationships other than what they were exposed to growing up. For myself, I don't consider myself to be at all like most other NTs, I consider myself to be an atypical neurotypical (ANT). I am certainly not an authority on human behavior, but I do think about and care about people getting along with other people, ending or minimizing human pain and suffering, improving the quality of life for people, etc., and so any opinions I express on this subject are based on my own upbringing and prejudices, my education, and my 40+ yrs of experience simply trying to get along with people.

PlatedDrake I very much appreciate your perspectives on this topic, particularly:
I can definitely relate to this statement because I often feel the same way. Sometimes I just need to retreat from the social world for a time because it can be so overwhelming and just...draining. My thoughts go along the lines of "...get me away from all these idiots before I lose my sanity altogether. Its a wonder humanity has survived as long as it has."

I suspect that I might have Asperger's, but haven't been professionally diagnosed.

Actually, I could ditto much of what those who are AS diagnosed have said. It's ME, to a T! Still, it doesn't necessarily have to mean AS or Autistic Spectrum Disorders/Anomoly.

It's a little scary and confusing.

I consider myself an atypical neurotypical also. I wish I could put ANT in my profile A communication problem that I have with both ASD folks and NT folks is with idioms and other not so idioms. I think in pictures too, and for many things I get double meanings, and the visual literal meaning compared to the intended meaning contrast makes me laugh inside. And I like to word some things slightly different hoping to get someone else to co-experience the visual literal meaning and co-experience the humorous contrast, but most folks don't seem to think in pictures, and my statement just puzzles them instead, or they assume I am upset with them, or that I have insulted them. I sometimes even experience this response even when I am not trying to be humorous. Folks who are ASD don't have a corner on communication problems. And I don't think I would do well on survivor either, just for different reasons.

What if Greentea has already had a positive affect for your child?

hey i want to know how to put across your real feelings towards a nt

i mean i have a few problems and i dont have a clue how to put across how i feel about somone

a few examples are

.dislike
.deeper feelings
.how to tell someone you have aspergers
.how to tell someone whos never heard of it
.ect ect ect


also i have never been able to start a convo i just cant think of a suitible topic

LOL Problem with this is that some so-called NTs are NOT, and some who have tagged themselves as AS are not.

Is AS even diagnosable apart from a falliable human being's perception? Meaning, is there an actual test that produces the same results each and everytime for an AS individual? Something based on fact and not opinion? Maybe there are so many different "strains" of AS because the so-called "milder" cases are simply highly knowledgeable human beings who are aware of what truly matters in the world and who perform tasks better than most?

If we have come to the realization that humans are ridiculously falliable creatures who care too much about total absurdities, and are slackers where work is concerned, do we have to tag ourselves with some condition just because we refuse to take part in the nonsense? Why should we give others the right to say something is wrong with us just because we choose to operate on a higher plane than they do?

Butt-kissing, office politics -- all the same to me -- I refuse to take part in it. I'm also not going to freak out, get emotional, or cry over ANYTHING. I can relate to quite a bit of the feelings that AS-tagged people on this forum have, so I'm "mild AS", I suppose.

The norms of society are oftentimes absurd......take fashion trends as an example. Paying hundreds of dollars for a name brand makes you a somebody? Makes you an idiot in my book.

Hasn't anyone heard of a "pack-mentality"? Humans have it. It's why AS people think they have AS -- because those like us are smart enough to operate apart from the pack. We don't get bored, we like ourselves, we can happily operate apart from other people, and can keep ourselves entertained......that makes us independent, not wierd or afflicted with some medical condition.

I just feel that so-called "milder" AS cases are highly evolved individuals and have nothing medically wrong with them. They are just forced to live in a world that operates with a pack-mentality, and extremely intelligent individuals won't allow themselves to be part of the "pack" (why, when there are so many misguided persons in that pack??).

Just some thoughts. I didn't even hear about AS till yesterday, so I'm still learning about it. Basically, it seems this disgusting pack-mentality is wanting to tag us independents with some medical condition because we won't put up with or participate in their lunacy. Phooey.

I'm an Aspie, but I think I know a few things about finding a suitable topic.
-When you start a conversation it's ok to start with "Hi" and "How are you" (for as far as I know).
-Trick is to find a topic in their response, or in how they respond.
- <if you have listened to what's going on in their lives from other conversations the person has had> you can ask about some topics from that. (if someone was going to buy a PS3, for example and that person has announced it like 3 times in one conversation and you see that person, you could as them how they like their new PS3. That will make a nice starter, I think.)
- if someone responds in a tired way you can mention that as well, or if they look tired, or... (not the thing I succeed in, but I see NT's succeed on that point, so that's how I learnt about that)
-if you have some good news for them, or bad news that might also help. (if it's rainy and you know it's going to be sunny the next day, you can start with mentioning that it's rainy and after that say you're glad that it'll be sunny tomorrow.)
-even if you don't really know what to say on "How are you?", you can still always say "Fine", if you're tired you could say it in a tired way and the other(s) will know you're tired, and likely say something about that (might be a topic starter, but is not a good reason to get tired already in my opinion).
-I can't tell you much more, because I don't know the real situation.

P.S. Please excuse me for my grammar and/or spelling errors, I'm not born English.