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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 2:30 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Ellytoad wrote:
... and isn't it one of the big requirements that AS traits have to be prominent in childhood?


I think it is. Because children have no coping mechanisms and just behave naturally.


Yep. My psychs always told me that symptoms MUST be prevelant in childhood. If you could not qualify for a diagnosis as a toddler/child, then you cannot qualify for one as an adult because autism does not appear in adulthood.


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 2:31 am

Tuttle wrote:
They need to be visible in childhood as its a developmental disorder. It is possible that the traits become more prominent later in life - often around puberty this occurs, but the traits had to be there even when you were a young child.


It is also true for many that as they age they become less severe. That has been the case with many people on WP.


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 2:32 am

btbnnyr wrote:
Another possible developmental trajectory is being quite severely autistic in childhood with very little social or communicative capabilities for years, then starting to improve a lot towards the end of grade school.


Oops, I guess I should have read the following post before basically repeating your point! LOL


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Tuttle
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31 Aug 2011, 2:41 am

littlelily613 wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
They need to be visible in childhood as its a developmental disorder. It is possible that the traits become more prominent later in life - often around puberty this occurs, but the traits had to be there even when you were a young child.


It is also true for many that as they age they become less severe. That has been the case with many people on WP.



Yeah - the point was that they could become more prominent later - and that puberty is a common time for them to become more prominent because the changes in hormones are hard on the body.

I think I've seen a noticeable amount of people "peak" in their autistic-ness at puberty, having less visible traits before then, and more coping skills developed after then.



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31 Aug 2011, 3:30 am

It's also possible to become "more autistic" later in life, usually due to burnout or just aging.



dougn
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31 Aug 2011, 3:41 am

Tuttle wrote:
I think I've seen a noticeable amount of people "peak" in their autistic-ness at puberty, having less visible traits before then, and more coping skills developed after then.

I'm not sure if this fits me or not, since my traits were really quite visible when I was a child (e.g. hand-flapping).

I think actually that as I "improved" in some sense I also got worse simultaneously: that is, as I had increased self-awareness (surely a form of improvement) I became more aware of how odd I was, which made me anxious and depressed. Others also started bullying me much more severely and/or I became more aware of it (possibly more severe in terms of physical bullying + increased comprehension on my part of verbal bullying), which also caused me a lot of anxiety and depression on top of that caused by my own self-recognition of being strange. So my overall level of functioning dropped precipitously from age 12-14 or so, but I'm not sure my autistic traits became more visible or severe. I definitely changed, and overall it was for the worse, but it was more complicated than that. For example, when I was not in distress, I did much less hand-flapping (decreased visibility of autistic traits), but my amount of distress increased a lot, so I had a lot more meltdowns/shutdowns and developed much more severe stims like repeatedly running into walls at full speed (increased visibility/severity of autistic traits). I don't think any of this had to do with puberty though,



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31 Aug 2011, 10:30 am

Fnord wrote:
marshall wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
It seems like littlelily and Fnord are creating contention where none exists because they are peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose. Or peeved that people are more interested in giving personal opinions than simply telling someone the obvious "go get a professional diagnosis". Of course, if that was how all people responded to every "do I have it" thread, it would be extremely boring to read.

No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results. I am not saying that a professional diagnosis would always be accurate, or that professional treatment would always be effective. I am saying that being diagnosed and treated by a trained professional is much more accurate and effective than self-diagnosis and self-treatment, and is certainly better than the half-baked opinions of non-professionals with their own prejudices and agendas to advance.

At the very least, if anyone is going to err, then they would be better off to err on the side of caution than simply follow the questionable advice of strangers on a public website that is devoted to people with perceptive disorders and behavioral problems.

That's absurd. I've never seen anyone interested in self-medicating for aspergers or autism.

Also, what makes you think professionals do not also have prejudices and agendas to advance? Maybe I would have more reverence for the opinions of psychiatrists if their "science" was not presently in the stone age. I mean, neurologists have disturbingly little physical/theoretical understanding of the mechanisms by which most psychiatric medications work.



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31 Aug 2011, 11:14 am

littlelily613 wrote:
marshall wrote:
It seems like littlelily and Fnord are creating contention where none exists because they are peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose.


It seems like you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. I cannot speak for Fnord, only for myself, and I am absolutely not "peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose" since I WAS self-diagnosed for YEARS! I only just got my diagnosis in July, and I have been advocating professional diagnoses a lot longer than that. I also have always said that some people with a self-dx are indeed correct, and some people are not. No, I do not take a self-dx to be at the same level as a professional diagnosis. Why should I? I do not take a self-diagnosis of cancer to be at the same level as a professional one that has been made after extensive testing. And anyway, the original post is about him thinking he DOESN'T have it, so I have not, in anyway, tried to tell him: you can't self-diagnose yourself as Aspergers. In fact, I have posted in many of the same threads as Sammich, and I have NEVER called his "autisticness" into question---HE is the one doing that. So you can get off your pedestal now!


Fnord has stated that he thinks any self-diagnosed person seeking insight from other people on a forum is wasting people's time. In other words, being naturally inquisitive and introspective and wanting to share ideas/speculations/doubts is wrong and a waste of time. In a nutshell, his message was "shut up and get a professional diagnosis, the people on this site are biased idiots who are wasting your time".

I only lumped you in with Fnord because you stated how strongly you agree with him.

Also, nobody on this thread was suggesting that this kind of self-analysis discussion is a substitute for a professional diagnosis.



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31 Aug 2011, 12:21 pm

SammichEater wrote:
I thought for sure I had AS. I was almost certain. I'm really not so sure anymore. I do in fact meet the criteria, so why am I beginning to change my mind?

I've been doing quite a lot of research in the past few days. When I was in elementary school, I was not considered to be disabled or to have a disorder. I was considered "gifted." I was comprehending literature that was far above my grade level. I had (and still have) an intuitive understanding of mathematics and it's applications in the real world. I had actually made a few friends, most of which had abilities similar to that of my own.

Now, lets get one thing straight. I'm definitely not the most outgoing person in the world. All of my friends have been extroverts who confronted me, and not the other way around. But that actually has nothing to do with AS. Aspies are socially inept, not necessarily introverts. With that in mind, am I actually socially inept? Maybe slightly, but not enough to be classified as "significantly impaired." I'm really just introverted.

Don't get me wrong, I still have poor social skills, just not in the typical aspie way. I actually don't lack empathy and I can read facial expressions well enough, yet I am socially isolated. Why? Because I'm a TI-89 living in a box full of TI-83's, if you get my analogy. I can have a two way conversation with people. It's just that I can only do it with other people who think like I do. Unfortunately, they are hard to find.

It doesn't just end there. I have a sense of humor and an understanding of sarcasm and figurative language (usually). I am not prone to extreme anxiety and panic attacks. I have never had meltdowns. My interests, while intense, are not nearly as narrow as many aspies. My understanding of the material I learn is not just rote memorization, like many aspies. In fact, my memory is at around average; it is my comprehension that is far above that.

While, from a distance, this does sound like AS. But when put under a microscope, I think the answer becomes clear. I'm just more intelligent than most people, that's all. That doesn't mean life is all that great for me, though. Like I said, I still have social issues, the cause is just different.

I previously thought that I was twice exceptional. After quite a bit of introspection, this isn't the case. My behavior is very typical of a smart, introverted guy; much more so than that of an aspie. There really aren't a lot of differences between me and regular "gifted" people.

And, just for references:

http://www.suite101.com/content/highly- ... nal-a71678

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/eric/fact/asperger.pdf


Your knowledge of yourself-far exceeds anyone else's, but nothing you've said precludes having Aspergers, likely because you're citing pop-culture criteria of the syndrome and not the actual requirements.

All of that means nothing-
I wasn't considered disordered or disabled: At my school, and the vast majority of public schools, students who make good grades and don't act out in disturbing ways aren't referred for any kind of testing.
I made friends: childhood social rules are quite simple, but they expand into seemingly-infinite complexities with adolescence, puberty, and adulthood, which is when many Aspies start having trouble.
I have empathy: for those who think like me, just as NT's do, while Autistics are harder for them to understand. In that same way, I find NT's alienesque because their way of being is so different.
My sense of humor is present: because having one isn't defined by finding funny what everyone else finds funny. Mine is perverse and outrageous.
I don't yell or punch or throw things when I am upset: I "shut down" and cannot engage emotionally in any way until I feel better.
I, too, can respond to someone who talks to me, and interject my own thoughts: That doesn't mean I'm not in agony over the usually-inane topic and fighting the urge to blurt out something about my interests.

But, again, you know yourself better than anyone else.


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ValentineWiggin
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31 Aug 2011, 12:27 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Ellytoad wrote:
... and isn't it one of the big requirements that AS traits have to be prominent in childhood?


I think it is. Because children have no coping mechanisms and just behave naturally.


Yep. My psychs always told me that symptoms MUST be prevelant in childhood. If you could not qualify for a diagnosis as a toddler/child, then you cannot qualify for one as an adult because autism does not appear in adulthood.


Autism most certainly can appear in adulthood, if it's in the form of Aspergers.

There is no onus, given basic developmental psychology, for symptoms to be clinically-evident before adulthood,
as prone as pop-culture and even the psych community is for misinterpreting some actions as having certain motivations versus others, considering others desirable or "normal" based on prescribed roles (IE, gender), and discounting wholly the notion that children will usually do their best to fit in, and many who are quite decidedly neurologically-different are very successful in doing so.

In fact, a criterion for being diagnosed as having Aspergers as opposed to classic Autism is that there be no clinically-significant delay in certain skills in childhood, such as adaptive behavior and language.


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 1:24 pm

marshall wrote:
I only lumped you in with Fnord because you stated how strongly you agree with him.


I don't believe I used the word "strongly". I believe you assumed my thoughts based upon your own interpretation of the thread.

I do believe professional diagnosis is more valid than a self diagnosis. I do not believe I am causing contention. If you think this, then you are unable to interpret what I am truly saying.


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31 Aug 2011, 1:30 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Ellytoad wrote:
... and isn't it one of the big requirements that AS traits have to be prominent in childhood?


I think it is. Because children have no coping mechanisms and just behave naturally.


Yep. My psychs always told me that symptoms MUST be prevelant in childhood. If you could not qualify for a diagnosis as a toddler/child, then you cannot qualify for one as an adult because autism does not appear in adulthood.


Autism most certainly can appear in adulthood, if it's in the form of Aspergers.

There is no onus, given basic developmental psychology, for symptoms to be clinically-evident before adulthood,
as prone as pop-culture and even the psych community is for misinterpreting some actions as having certain motivations versus others, considering others desirable or "normal" based on prescribed roles (IE, gender), and discounting wholly the notion that children will usually do their best to fit in, and many who are quite decidedly neurologically-different are very successful in doing so.

In fact, a criterion for being diagnosed as having Aspergers as opposed to classic Autism is that there be no clinically-significant delay in certain skills in childhood, such as adaptive behavior and language.


Huh? Autism is a developmental disorder, it doesn't just appear in adulthood. If it does, it's something else.

Plus Asperger's does show in childhood but it be with inflexibility to change or obsessions and restricted interests, social issues. Depending on how mild it is, it might be harder to tell until the child is older when they start real school.



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31 Aug 2011, 1:31 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Autism most certainly can appear in adulthood, if it's in the form of Aspergers.


No it cannot; this is completely false. There is NO SUCH THING as adult-onset autism. Aspergers was also present in childhood. Throughout the dsm-iv for Aspergers it speaks of Aspergers as a DEVELOPMENTAL disorder. Development disorders involve....development. Development of that sort is complete in adulthood--PDDs are about childhood development. It is true that Aspergers often goes unnoticed until a person is older, but that does not mean onset was in adulthood. It means that symptoms were mild enough not to have caused too much concern for function in childhood. According to the diagnostic criteria in the dsm-v for ASD (of which Aspergers is a part of), symptoms MUST be present in early childhood. Even if they are not noticed right away people will be able to look back and say "oh yeah, that was abnormal". Autism (which includes Aspergers) cannot develop outside of childhood.


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 1:39 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
In fact, a criterion for being diagnosed as having Aspergers as opposed to classic Autism is that there be no clinically-significant delay in certain skills in childhood, such as adaptive behavior and language.


Forgot to respond to this.

This doesn't really make sense in reference to the point you were trying to make. For Aspergers, these delays are NEVER present (due to the ASD). It makes no difference on the age of the person. They do not appear later in adulthood (as a result of AS) because for AS, you canNOT have these delays (though if you get into an accident that causes brain damage similar issues might arise). That is the diagnostic criteria for those diagnosed in any stage of life. For true Aspergers according to the dsm there is never a delay in those skills. The symptoms of true Aspergers that make the diagnostic criteria of the disorder must be seen to some extent in early childhood. There is no way around it.

And if they qualify for an ASD and seem delayed in adulthood but never were to any extent in childhood, then they would still have an AS diagnosis because diagnosis is all about what you were like as a child. Every single psych I have had (about ASDs) has stressed this to me, and any scientific paper or book I have read on the subject concurs with this!


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 1:41 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Huh? Autism is a developmental disorder, it doesn't just appear in adulthood. If it does, it's something else.

Plus Asperger's does show in childhood but it be with inflexibility to change or obsessions and restricted interests, social issues. Depending on how mild it is, it might be harder to tell until the child is older when they start real school.


Exactly!

And the dsm-v states that symptoms MUST be present even if a person is mild; however, they may not be NOTICED in mild people until social circumstances arise that make them apparent (this would still be at some point in childhood though, like in school).


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littlelily613
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31 Aug 2011, 1:41 pm

**Oops, double post somehow**


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Diagnosed with classic Autism
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EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)


Last edited by littlelily613 on 31 Aug 2011, 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.