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ASD/ AS and firearms...DO THEY MIX??

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Would you personally own firearms?
Poll ended at 25 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm
Yes 63%  63%  [ 79 ]
No 37%  37%  [ 47 ]
Total votes : 126

NeueZiel
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09 May 2012, 6:03 am

Guns are boring, GIMME THIS TO BLOW SOME PEOPLE UP WITH DURING ONE OF MY MANIC PHASES:

Image

You guys like guns? How about a GAU-AVENGER? :twisted:

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The General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger is a 30 mm hydraulically-driven seven-barrel Gatling-type cannon that is mounted on the United States Air Force's Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II. It is among the largest, heaviest and most powerful aircraft cannons in the United States military. Designed specifically for the anti-tank role, the Avenger delivers very powerful rounds at a high rate of fire.


Bottleneck traffic? NO PROBLEM! Somebody's house you don't like? Just aim a nice laser guided smart bomb, hit their garage!



perpetualconfusion
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09 May 2012, 8:52 pm

To stay "on topic", could the pilot of the A-10 Warthog be just as effective/safe using the weapons systems provided on that platform if they were on the "spectrum", or would they have to be NT :?:

Maybe we should start a separate thread to discuss the firearms themselves :chin: :wtg: .


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Dillogic
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09 May 2012, 9:10 pm

I know the US military precludes people with a diagnosed ASD from joining nowadays (it's a relatively recent thing).

So, no, the US government thinks 30mm autocannons are out for "aspies" (which is silly, as people should be taken individually in these things).



kBillingsley
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09 May 2012, 9:44 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon. I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim.


Ya OK kid, you've given your 2 cents, you can go back to playing your warrior in WoW now.


Cute, but I do not play games. I hold steadfast in my opinion that there is a certain grace to slaying the opposition with a hand weapon. In doing so you have committed only your own strength, and have not expended foreign chemical energy packed into a little case, wholesale style, by some nameless machine. You have eaten of the grain and the meat, and what energy you yourself have derived from it is expended in taking the life of the enemy. And do not come off with that whole line of "it takes skill to wield a firearm too," because if it were true, parents would not keep firearms from little (untrained) kids and you would never hear about those tragic incidents of child on child murder from an unprotected firearm. Anyone can pull a trigger, and anyone that knows anything about trigonometry can land a target.



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09 May 2012, 9:48 pm

Dillogic wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon.


As a former Iaido and Kenjutsu student, and also a former competitor in IDPA (international defensive pistol association), I can tell you accurately that putting lead on target is far harder than swinging a sword around.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ[/youtube]



Rascal77s
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09 May 2012, 10:06 pm

kBillingsley wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon. I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim.


Ya OK kid, you've given your 2 cents, you can go back to playing your warrior in WoW now.


Cute, but I do not play games. I hold steadfast in my opinion that there is a certain grace to slaying the opposition with a hand weapon. In doing so you have committed only your own strength, and have not expended foreign chemical energy packed into a little case, wholesale style, by some nameless machine. You have eaten of the grain and the meat, and what energy you yourself have derived from it is expended in taking the life of the enemy. And do not come off with that whole line of "it takes skill to wield a firearm too," because if it were true, parents would not keep firearms from little (untrained) kids and you would never hear about those tragic incidents of child on child murder from an unprotected firearm. Anyone can pull a trigger, and anyone that knows anything about trigonometry can land a target.


It's too bad you're not the spokesman for gun control, everyone would be packin.



Dillogic
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09 May 2012, 10:35 pm

If you think shooting [a pistol] ain't harder than martial arts, go and give it a whirl.

Have a go at IDPA after gaining competency in utilizing a holster and sending some rounds downrange. Then compare that to a form from Kung-Fu (I also did Tong Long Kung Fu), or the same from Iaido. The first form of each will do.

You have to worry about all of the safety rules
the mechanics of the weapon
proper sight alignment
proper trigger squeeze
proper movement with a drawn firearm
the course of fire (replace with situational awareness in a real life event)
the different types of reloads, from tactical to speed, and when to use them

and this is all after actually learning to just send rounds downrange safely and without flinching from the recoil and muzzle blast of 9mmP and higher, and hitting what you're aiming at.

Whereas with the martial arts, all you need to know is where which limb goes where and in which order.

As for accidents and stuff, that's a part of life. People drown, people fall down stairs, people fall off bikes, people have tree limbs fall on them, people shoot themselves due to negligence [by either the parent or owner], people fall in the shower, people...just die. You can't avoid death. It's everywhere you look.



kBillingsley
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09 May 2012, 10:42 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon. I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim.


Ya OK kid, you've given your 2 cents, you can go back to playing your warrior in WoW now.


Cute, but I do not play games. I hold steadfast in my opinion that there is a certain grace to slaying the opposition with a hand weapon. In doing so you have committed only your own strength, and have not expended foreign chemical energy packed into a little case, wholesale style, by some nameless machine. You have eaten of the grain and the meat, and what energy you yourself have derived from it is expended in taking the life of the enemy. And do not come off with that whole line of "it takes skill to wield a firearm too," because if it were true, parents would not keep firearms from little (untrained) kids and you would never hear about those tragic incidents of child on child murder from an unprotected firearm. Anyone can pull a trigger, and anyone that knows anything about trigonometry can land a target.


It's too bad you're not the spokesman for gun control, everyone would be packin.


Not sure if that was derogatory or not, but war only begets war; I am going to cut this off here before we both get booted from WP.



perpetualconfusion
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09 May 2012, 10:45 pm

Dillogic wrote:
I know the US military precludes people with a diagnosed ASD from joining nowadays (it's a relatively recent thing).

So, no, the US government thinks 30mm autocannons are out for "aspies" (which is silly, as people should be taken individually in these things).


I was just trying to steer this back to the topic :) . Starting to drift a little off course 8O .
I am well aware of current DoD policy w/regards to ASD. A lifetime resident of the US, I do my best to be aware of the constant encroachment on my personal freedoms here.

Can you imagine what Rebecca Peters would say ? :lol:

Back to topic :)


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kBillingsley
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09 May 2012, 10:51 pm

Dillogic wrote:
If you think shooting [a pistol] ain't harder than martial arts, go and give it a whirl.

Have a go at IDPA after gaining competency in utilizing a holster and sending some rounds downrange. Then compare that to a form from Kung-Fu (I also did Tong Long Kung Fu), or the same from Iaido. The first form of each will do.

You have to worry about all of the safety rules
the mechanics of the weapon
proper sight alignment
proper trigger squeeze
proper movement with a drawn firearm
the course of fire (replace with situational awareness in a real life event)
the different types of reloads, from tactical to speed, and when to use them

and this is all after actually learning to just send rounds downrange safely and without flinching from the recoil and muzzle blast of 9mmP and higher, and hitting what you're aiming at.

Whereas with the martial arts, all you need to know is where which limb goes where and in which order.

As for accidents and stuff, that's a part of life. People drown, people fall down stairs, people fall off bikes, people have tree limbs fall on them, people shoot themselves due to negligence [by either the parent or owner], people fall in the shower, people...just die. You can't avoid death. It's everywhere you look.


...my point was that an untrained child could discharge and successfully kill with a firearm. If a kid can do it, then anyone can. The argument is moot though. We are not even fighting over anything. You will just log off and caress your gun collection, and I will fondle my contempt for conventional firearms. I refuse to own a gun until the CIA admits that we already have rayguns anyway. Best of luck to you and your apparent obsession with all things self-defense. I meant you no quarrel, and so I am going to cut this off before a moderator shows up and cuts us off from WrongPlanet.



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09 May 2012, 11:25 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. Armed people aren't exploited and taking away a peoples' ability to resist is a pre-requisite to exploiting them.

No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol. You are making an error in causality.

The Romans weren't powerful because they had weapons. They had weapons because they were powerful.



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09 May 2012, 11:47 pm

kBillingsley wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
kBillingsley wrote:
Guns are for people without the skill or cunning to use a melee weapon. I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim.


Ya OK kid, you've given your 2 cents, you can go back to playing your warrior in WoW now.


Cute, but I do not play games. I hold steadfast in my opinion that there is a certain grace to slaying the opposition with a hand weapon. In doing so you have committed only your own strength, and have not expended foreign chemical energy packed into a little case, wholesale style, by some nameless machine. You have eaten of the grain and the meat, and what energy you yourself have derived from it is expended in taking the life of the enemy. And do not come off with that whole line of "it takes skill to wield a firearm too," because if it were true, parents would not keep firearms from little (untrained) kids and you would never hear about those tragic incidents of child on child murder from an unprotected firearm. Anyone can pull a trigger, and anyone that knows anything about trigonometry can land a target.


It's too bad you're not the spokesman for gun control, everyone would be packin.


Not sure if that was derogatory or not, but war only begets war; I am going to cut this off here before we both get booted from WP.


It simply means that if you were running around proclaiming the virtue of stabbing and bludgeoning people to death more people would carry guns to protect themselves from people like you.

Quote:
I want to see the light go out of the eyes of my victim.


If they are the victim you are victimizing them. Which sounds more correct to you.... "murder victim" or "self-defense victim"?

I'm not sure why I would be banned but ok, I'll let you go so you can get a firmer grip on reality. BTW, would you mind telling us how many victims you've slaughtered?



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10 May 2012, 12:18 am

enrico_dandolo wrote:
No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol.


So what you're saying here, using a modern example, is that a powerful government imposes gun controls on weak citizens as part of the process of exploitation. I guess I can go along with that. Glad to see you turning more pro-gun.



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10 May 2012, 7:24 am

Rascal77s wrote:
BTW, would you mind telling us how many victims you've slaughtered?


I was kinda wondering that myself, though I concur that we're probably talking Skyrim kills here.

I've never understood why talking guns inevitably draws the "guns are for p*ssies!" crowd out of the strip-mall spy shop, we are tool users after all and using a non-optimal tool for no good reason doesn't make any sense to anyone (except for mall-ninjas, apparently).


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10 May 2012, 12:40 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
No. The powerful exploit the weak. One aspect of this exploitation that the weak must surrender their arms, partly for practical reasons, partly as a symbol.


So what you're saying here, using a modern example, is that a powerful government imposes gun controls on weak citizens as part of the process of exploitation. I guess I can go along with that. Glad to see you turning more pro-gun.

Absolutely not. The powerful also tend to take control of the religion, the economy, they monopolize government offices -- and, ultimately, take the arms of the weak. "Taking their arms" here doesn't really apply to regulating handguns, since handguns are given only to soldiers not supposed to use them in combat. The modern equivalent version of "taking their arms" would be to confiscate long-range bombers or heavy artillery, basically the kind of things the Allies forced upon Germany at Versailles.

Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws.



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10 May 2012, 2:50 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
Besides, gun regulations apply also to the powerful. A Roman noble bearing the cingulum militiae would be the modern equivalent of a senior civil servant and a rich stockholder. To my knowledge, civil servants and rich stockholders are not excluded from gun laws.


Depends on where you are. In DC, government employees are pretty much the only ones able to own and carry guns of any kind, and in NYC and parts of California it is widely acknowledged that the only way to get a carry permit is to be "connected" in some way, wealth fame or politics. Even anti-gun politicians living in anti-gun districts somehow manage to get carry permits their constituents never could receive; Dianne Feinstein, Mike Bloomberg and Dennis Kucinich all come to mind.


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