Are autistics part Neanderthal?

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The opposite argument was presented in John Elder Robison's blog. Here several people claimed that African American culture was more accepting of difference, and this was why fewer seeked diagnosis. Both of these cannot be true. If a culture is more accepting of difference, it should be less likely to attach stigma to seeking diagnosis for being odd.

I find it more likely that the African American culture is not used to dealing with neurodiversity, and actually have no personal experience with this kind of difference. This leads them to believe they are more accepting of difference, while still stigmatizing more when they encounter difference.



That doesn't explain why American Indians both score higher than average, and also have higher than average participation. It doesn't explain why the Russian version is quite popular, neither why there are several Eastern European translations.



The Asian population has a different issue. They do take Aspie Quiz at the expected rate, or even more frequently than expected, but they score below normal by a large margin. IOW, the Asian population does have an interest, it is just that fewer of them score high.



Most people are not aware of that connection, and a majority today actually comes from outside of the autistic community.



Aspie Quiz does not link to the Neanderthal theory. People only would make the connection if they find Aspie Quiz via my webpage, which a minority does. Most find a direct link on the net. Additionally, the number of people visiting the Neanderthal theory is considerably less than the number visiting Aspie Quiz.

I could write a dissertation on the subject matter.

It's a reputation derived from the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr because just about every minority group fighting for acceptance in society uses MLK (and the Civil Rights Movement )as precedence. So, the logic is, surely, the most discriminated group in America accepts a wide variety of differences found in others. BUT, that's not necessarily true, in general. The political ideology, treatment of individuals with diverse sexual orientations, and religious affiliations would not suggest a culture, as accepting of differences, as others claim it to be.

In regards to neurodiversity and autism/aspergers, i believe there is very little awareness in the African American community.


TheSunAlsoRises

Regarding individuals that might regard themselves as American Indian, on the survey; there are some individuals that identify themselves as such when it is a minority of their caucasian ancestry heritage, out of American Indian heritage pride, of some whom partake in cultural traditions.

For others, it can be the story of a Great-great-great grandmother who is reported by family tradition as an half blooded American Indian. You aren't likely going to get an answer that reflects actual majority ancestry heritage on that specific question.

I live in an area of the country where that is common. However. in all cases the percentages of the races in the country are determined by official government census results.

Those results are determined by the individuals whom fill out the census. What a youth who takes the aspie quiz, and determines and reports as their American Indian heritage may not reflect the opinions of the adult that fills out the census information, for that youth. It can be a subjective opinion.

Beyond that, at 1.7% of those surveyed by census, on an online anonymous volunteer survey, it would be easy to get skewed results at a higher rate, regardless of these specific contributing factors.

There is a greater understanding and acceptance of Aspergers in the UK and some other European countries than there are in the States. Likely much greater awareness there of what the word Aspie might mean. Russia does not appear to have clear diagnostic standards, so I can't weigh in there, other than the individuals whom live there may have gained an awareness and understanding through surrounding european media sources.

The stygma in the Black community is for seeking help from mental health professionals, and the labels that result, along with the fact that some do not have access to that help, per the study from NAMI. The comments from the actual african americans that responded in the J.E.R. blog mentioned that they were less likely to seek a diagnosis, and that cultural stereotypes resulted in misdiagnosis.

Some African Americans feel personally stygmatized by their differences as reported in the other link I provided in that post. And, yes, as with any other individual with Aspergers while some families may be accepting of behavioral differences, some aren't; many factors influence that outcome.

It depends on what the differences are; homosexuality is not well accepted within the black community, and as a result the differences are hidden. And, there was more evidence presented in that post, from another peer reviewed research source, of the under-diagnosis of mental health problems in the African American Community.

While you don't directly link to the Neanderthal theory on the Actual Aspie Quiz, the source is clearly indicated in the web address. All one has to do is backspace to rdos.net, to find the source of the quiz, and the neanderthal theory of autism, linked clearly on the homepage of your website.

When I took the test a year ago, that is the first thing I did, to determine the credibility of the source, because of the unusual terminology in the quiz regarding hunting. That is how, I first found out about the Neanderthal theory of autism.

While not everyone is going to think of doing this, it is easy enough to do. As long as the quiz is part of your main website, someone would figure it out on a site like the one that provides the neanderthal ancestory test, complain about the racial overtones, and the quiz would likely be taken down, because of complaints, as long as that section about the racial aspect is included.

The general neanderthal admixture theory is already being used by some in online white supremacy groups as evidence of caucasian superiority. And the issue has been criticized on online African American community groups as well.

It's a touchy enough subject, without focus on racial overtones, in the neanderthal theory of autism itself. That in itself could kill any chance of many taking it seriously in the scientific community, not just because of the racial speculations, but because it is obvious that this type of speculation could significantly affect the results of your data, in the Aspie Quiz, that you use to support the Neanderthal Theory. Even if it is a minority difference of 5 percent, that is still a significant problem.

Some would dismiss the quiz as not credible because of the racial aspect of the Neanderthal Theory. The racial controversy could upset some people enough where they put junk input into the quiz, just out of spite. A reason, why it might be counterproductive to include racially politically incorrect information, when one is trying to get accurate demographic data.

At this point, one solution would be to provide a separate website for the Aspie quiz, that didn't source back to your main website with the neanderthal theory in the web address.

Since you already see and identify the section as potentially controversial and politically incorrect, and say you are separating the section from the rest of the theory, the easiest solution would be to take the racial aspect section out of the theory and off of the website.

People are already deriving their own politically incorrect conclusions from the general neanderthal admixture theory, without any racial speculations on superiority of caucasians in that theory itself.

Adding to that speculation in your theory, adds fuel to that fire, and will likely create oppositional forces, particularly if the theory becomes better known outside of the autistic community.

It would be interesting to find out if different kind of Neanderthal races have existed; After all, we are speaking about a specie that lived for 200 000 years in a very large region. Beside of that, what make the Neanderthal theory coherent to me is physical appearance of Europeans. The light complexion of Europeans, even in southern Europe and the brown complexion of Asian, even in northern Asia cannot be explained otherwise than by the Neanderthal theory. What I also find convincing is the fact that even with a lower average IQ than Asians, European populations have always been the source of scientific discovery. Even with the development of asians countries, we don't see them producing big scientific shifts, now association of ideas and innovative thinking which lead to those ideas is a major traits of the autism spectrum. Autism, experience knowledge in a very intimate and affective way. Not surprisingly, most of the major scientists are or were on the spectrum.

I think Aspies may be more Neanderthal than NTs because we have more problems adapting in the world than NTs. Darwin's theory of evolution is that the less adaptable species die out & Neanderthals died out a very long time ago because they were not adoptable to their environment.

Interesting. I think similar factors that effect participation in society as whole..i.e voting will have an effect upon African-Americans partaking in an Aspie Quiz.

In regards to racial stereotyping/cultural stereotyping.. the sooner we recognize that cultural differences may have an effect on the way an ASD presents itself in a specific group;, the sooner we can try to solve the problem.

I'm NOT saying other factors such as the stigma of a developmental delay diagnosis, mental health diagnosis, or overall mistrust of the health care field has no bearing on African-Americans willingness to get an ASD diagnosis; I'm saying other more relevant factors are involved.

Carry On.

TheSunAlsoRises

Could be if African-Americans have 1/5th the voting participation rate compared to Caucasians. So, do they?

Denisovans probably is one of them.



That's really politically incorrect, but it is still true.

However, the white suprematists are still wrong. An Arian NT is no more intelligent than an African NT. What racists don't want to hear is that all racial differences can be explained by differences in prevalence of neurodiversity. Once these differences are controlled for, no difference remains.

You need to read this statement in the racial aspect:



That's why no white supremacy group ever will want to promote the Neanderthal theory. By saying this, the theory in fact states that there are no differences between races except for prevalence of neurodiversity, and that NTs from different races are identical.

Quote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote
Interesting. I think similar factors that effect participation in society as whole..i.e voting will have an effect upon African-Americans partaking in an Aspie Quiz.



Quote:
rdos wrote: Could be if African-Americans have 1/5th the voting participation rate compared to Caucasians. So, do they?


The voting rates of African-Americans and White Americans were comparable in the presidential election( even higher among younger African-Americans). Although the 2008 presidential election had a historical meaning in relations to previous elections; past trends show that African-Americans have similar voting rates as Whites Americans in the presidential elections. I could argue that local and state elections depending upon the type of office sought would show a much much lower turnout trend BUT it's not relevant.

ASDs represent 1% of the US population and people are reluctant to say that a minute percentage of the total population may have an even smaller representation in a minority group. Like I said, before, i believe THAT there exists other factors 'why' African-Americans will not participate in an Aspie Quiz. LoL.

There is little research done on ASDs in the African-American community simply because developmental disorders explore cognitive abilities which leads to I.Q tests, research, and comparisons. This leads to accusations of racism and test bias IF scores of one particular group are higher than the other. So, no one touches the issues and research does not get done because an accusation of racism can destroy a budding scientific career(or a well established world renowned one).

Yeah, I know. My lil rant for today.

TheSunAlsoRises

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajpsy/article/view/69601



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLDCOj4W9ok&feature=related[/youtube]


TheSunAlsoRises

All animals that have a neurological system are neurodiverse; that's a natural part of the evolutionary process.

You have devised a test that suggests that humans have neurotypical traits that manifest themselves in extroverted behavior as opposed to aspie traits that manifest themselves in introverted behavior. There are extroverted animals and introverted mammals.

Similiar reward center mechanisms in the brain and stimulus reactive behaviors from birth, have been studied and evidenced across species, to account for this phenomenon.

Most mammals do not have neanderthals in their direct lineage, although all have a common connection if one goes back far enough in time, therefore it is impossible that DNA variants specific to Neanderthals, is significantly responsible for neurodiversity.

Extroversion is neurodiversity as well as introversion; impacted by different mechanisms in the reward centers of the brain and innate reactivity to stimulus.

Extroversion, Introversion, and Ambiversion could all be considered neurotypes.

Neurotype is just another word for differences in behavioral phenotypes, due to differences in neurology, again, that is evidenced in introversion and extroversion.

The racial aspect section of the Neanderthal theory of Autism, suggests that autistics are more creative and less impulsive than the Indigenous people's of Africa.

Impulsivity is a hallmark of ADHD, which is considered a neurodiverse condition, and has been measured in the indigenous people's of Africa as well as in every other race. ADHD is also measured as a co-morbid condition with Autism.

There is no empirical evidence that Autistic individuals are either less impulsive or more creative than the indigenous people's of Africa. The indigenous people's of Africa have a culture rich in creative efforts in the areas of art, music, and dance.

There are rocket scientists that are good at what they do, but it doesn't mean the specific skills and knowledge to create better rockets, would be considered creative, in the creative skills expressed in an indigenous African culture. Some of these cultures have no use for rockets.

However if they did, and education was provided, they would learn to design and build rockets. And, the rocket scientist might learn to sing, dance and paint, if he was raised in an African Culture.

Currently both Cognitive Science and the science of anthropology, both agree, that on average any human born anywhere in the world can adapt to any culture in any part of the world, through the process of neuroplasticity.

There are musically inclined Aspies and non-musically inclined Aspies, some whom are impusive some whom are not. Some whom like science and math, some whom don't. Some who are good at art, some whom don't care to draw at all. The same differences apply to every other group of human beings in the entire world.

To suggest that Neandertha DNA is responsible for most of Neurodiversity, is like suggesting it is responsible for arms and legs in human beings.

I'm open to the idea that it could contribute to minor morphological and neurological differences, however Neurodiversity is evidenced in every mammal with a neurological system.

One could not technically define these mammals Autistic, because that is a condition specific to characteristics that are part of human behavior, such as verbal abilities, but introverted and extroverted mammals can easily be identified, in many of the same ways that human beings are identified as such.

Whether or not the White Supremicists like the theory or not, people of African ancestory are likely going to be highly insulted, in suggesting that they have less creative abilities than the "likely Aspies", evidenced in the quiz.

At least the measured IQ differences between countries can be explained by cultural differences, but a suggestion of greater impulsivity, a lack of neurodiversity, and lower creativity, based on a lack of Neanderthal DNA, is unusual because these are common characteristics that vary among individuals in any human group, small or large.

Time magazine just came out with a "timely" article on this subject, on the advantages of being a shy kid. The characteristics presented in that article were indicative of many of the questions in the aspie quiz, as well as the advantages suggested by what you refer to as "likely Aspie traits".

There is a short quiz in that article for introversion that if I remember correctly has an analagous question for aspie traits for every one of those questions.

If one were to take this test and answer no to all the questions, they would be suspected as highly extroverted, but would also be likely considered as neurotypical on the aspie quiz.

There is a bell curve with 30 percent introverts and about 30 percent extroverts, and a spectrum that goes across the entire human population, with rarely an individual exhibiting all the traits of one personality type in every circumstance in their life.

As I mentioned earlier, extroverted individuals are no more neurotypical than introverted individuals from a studied neurological basis; the implication is the same for the aspie quiz.

The article in "Time" alluded to the fact that we live in an extroverted society, and some introverted individuals consider this, as a disadvantage. It can be a problem for some.

Could be tougher for introverted chimpanzees or Bonobos. There is no good way for chimpanzees to distance themselves from others, and stand a good chance of surviving in the wild.

This was likely the case for Neanderthals as well, in an environment that was likely harsher than that of what chimpanzees and Bonobos are exposed to.

Overall though, the article highlighted the fact, that there are many advantges to being introverted/shy.

But, of course, there are many advantages as well of being extroverted.

This is the true beauty of neurodiversity, mixed with different cultures, evidenced to exist throughout the human spectrum. No one in the world is excluded, per actual neurological differences that vary to some degree among all individuals. It is up to each individual to find their strengths, adapt, and apply them to their advantage.

Pretty much what I came here to say.

But per current longitudinal research, only in about 10 percent of studied autistics.

Recent research finds abnormal brain growth only in cases of regressive autism. The brains of individuals with early onset autism are not significantly different than control groups. And currently in a large longitudinal study abnormal brain growth is only seen in 10 percent of cases of autism.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011/11/28/bigger-brains-in-certain-types-of-autism-study-finds/



There is an ongoing thread in the Mathematics forum about paleontology in which one poster also suggested that the slightly larger brains associated with Neanderthals as opposed to modern man, is associated with autism. Even if that association was evidenced, which it isn't, it would only explain about 10 percent of cases, specific to regressive autism, per current research.

Update regarding the 23andme test in Aspie Quiz:

Now 5 out of 1,000 participants have given their 23andme scores, and all of them are in the correct range and thus probably truthful. That is 0.5% of the participants. As I need at least a few hundred scores, I need to wait until 20,000 - 30,000 people have answered, but that is a real possibility. It would take a few months, but it is feasible.

Self-selected sample, though. Not very reliable at all.