Have YOU been tested for Neanderthal genes?

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Anomiel
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14 Jan 2013, 1:11 am

eric76 wrote:
If Neanderthal genes are the source of Autism, then just how many of the Neanderthals do you think were Autistic?

In a harsh and primitive environment, I don't see being Autistic as conferring any advantages on survival. One would have to be able to become productive members of his family/clan at quite an early age. Any developmental disability that would result in taking longer than necessary to become productive could potentially put the entire family/clan at risk. "Autistic genes" would hardly confer reproductive advantages.


I think it would work very well being "high functioning" autistic and still being productive. There's also the central stimulant herbs found in neanderthal burials that to some speak of them self-medicating ADHD. I think if their genes have anything to do with autism, it is either because it was their standard way of being, and they were not disabled, or it is what happens if you mix up Homo sapiens instincts with a Neanderthals instincts. Some hybrid animals get problems because they don't have a "full set" of inherited instincts and act like neither (or both!) of its parents.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/savvy-scientist/what-neandertal-dna-can-teach-about-race-autism-and-more/575 wrote:
Perspective on neurodiversity. In the course of their recent analysis of the Denisovan DNA, Meyer and Pääbo identified 23 highly conserved areas of the human genome that seem to be unique to our kind. Eight of those contain genes that previous studies have tied to nerve growth and other aspects of brain function. And three of the conserved genes — ADSL, CBTNAP2, and CNTNAP2 — have been implicated in some forms of autism.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080908-neanderthal-brain.html wrote:
By studying the skulls of Neanderthal babies, researchers were able to estimate how quickly the infants' brains grew.

They found that between birth and adulthood, a Neanderthal brain expanded faster than that of a modern human. The biggest growth spurt occurred in the first couple of years of life.


Does this sound familiar? This exponential brain growth happens in ASD people too. (So a bit prejudiced of them to say "modern humans" when they mean NTs...)


Foxxtale wrote:
anybody else find it rather interesting that homo sapiens and neanderthal were able to interbreed and produce fertile offspring with such apparent regularity when things as genetically similar as horses and donkeys can interbreed and produce almost exclusively sterile offspring?


I saw that others had explained the reasons to why we could interbreed, but want to add that there are populations of modern day humans that barely can interbreed - those with RH positive blood and those with RH negative. I think RH negativity might come from neanderthals, but there are no studies on this.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm#RH wrote:
Rhesus factor

Rhesus negative blood is found in 15% of the caucasian population, and in over 25% of the Basque population. It's rare in native Indians, Asians and Africans. A rhesus negative mother will have immunological problems if she gets a rhesus positive child. This forms a barrier for hybridization into the Neanderthal population. Over 50% of people with schizophrenia are rhesus negative, and there are indications of similar frequencies in autism and Asperger.



knifegill wrote:
Like I said, it's just an idea. Some posters in here actually seem offended at the thought, but if you read up on what the current theories are about Neanderthal behavior, etc., it's not an insult at all. They are supposed to have been musical, thoughtful and creative, as well as fierce.

Oddly, I've often laughed at hunters and wondered why they don't just jump on the animal and stab it. My natural instinct is just that. Might be unrelated, but - it's awfully funny that I've always considered killing game that way - and that's exactly what they think Neanderthal did.


Me too. One of my favorite things in the world, which I can no longer do and it breaks my heart, is play-fighting and tumbling around with my partner. I've read that the play-styles of young ASD children are more like that too, compared to NT children.



eric76
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14 Jan 2013, 4:39 am

Anomiel wrote:
Perspective on neurodiversity. In the course of their recent analysis of the Denisovan DNA, Meyer and Pääbo identified 23 highly conserved areas of the human genome that seem to be unique to our kind. Eight of those contain genes that previous studies have tied to nerve growth and other aspects of brain function. And three of the conserved genes — ADSL, CBTNAP2, and CNTNAP2 — have been implicated in some forms of autism.


The author of that piece appears to have failed to understand what the paper itself actually claimed. As far as I can figure out, it does not claim that we got those genes from the Denisovans. The study itself appears to be off-limits to those of us without the right access, but we can find some clues to what it said from people with a much stronger background than the author of the above quote.

From an anthropologist who studies the bones and genes of ancient humans and who is Associate Professor of Anthropology at the University of Wisconsin—Madison. He is also Associate Chair of Anthropology, at Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI) Faculty Fellow, and an associate member of both the Department of Zoology and the J. F. Crow Institute for the Study of Evolution.:

With my foremost interests being in neuroscience and genetics, what I found to be most fascinating is what the Denisovan girl has taught us about the evolution of the human brain. At least eight genes associated with nerve growth (including SLITRK1, KATNA1, ARHGAP32 and HTR2B) have emerged since the time of the Denisovans. Other conserved genes associated with language development (ADSL, CBTNAP2 and CNTNAP2) were present but have undergone changes within modern-day humans. These genes are thought to be among the causes of autism if they mutate, which also suggests that there may be a link to the emergence of empathy within humans. The appearance and alterations of these genes demonstrates how far our complex cognitive processes have come since the time of our ancestors.


Further down, he quotes Meyer:
Quote:
One way to identify changes that may have functional consequences is to focus on sites that are highly conserved among primates and that have changed on the modern human lineage after separation from Denisovan ancestors. We note that among the 23 most conserved positions affected by amino acid changes (primate conservation score ≥ 0.95), eight affect genes that are associated with brain function or nervous system development (NOVA1, SLITRK1, KATNA1, LUZP1, ARHGAP32, ADSL, HTR2B, CBTNAP2). Four of these are involved in axonal and dendritic growth (SLITRK1, KATNA1) and synaptic transmission (ARHGAP32, HTR2B) and two have been implicated in autism (ADSL, CNTNAP2). CNTNAP2 is also associated with susceptibility to language disorders (27) and is particularly noteworthy as it is one of the few genes known to be regulated by FOXP2, a transcription factor involved in language and speech development as well as synaptic plasticity (28). It is thus tempting to speculate that crucial aspects of synaptic transmission may have changed in modern humans.



And this seems to be from someone else involved in the study:

The earlier genomes (1,2) allowed to identify less than half of all derived genomic features that became fixed or nearly fixed in modern humans after their divergence while the current Denisova genome provides an essentially complete catalogue. In 111,812 single nucleotide changes and 9,499 insertions and deletions, we identified 260 human‐specific SNCs that cause fixed amino acid substitutions in well‐defined human genes, 72 fixed SNCs affecting splice sites, and 35 SNCs affecting well‐defined motifs inside regulatory regions. We note that among the 23 most conserved positions affected by amino acid changes, eight affect genes associated with brain function or nervous system development (NOVA1, SLITRK1, KATNA1, LUZP1, ARHGAP32, ADSL, HTR2B, CBTNAP2). Four of these are involved in axonal and dendritic growth (SLITRK1, KATNA1) and synaptic transmission (ARHGAP32, HTR2B) and two have been implicated in autism (ADSL, CBTNAP2).


SNC = "Single Nucleotide Change"

There are some apparent discrepancies between them. One author says that the eight genes emerged since then while another says there are SNCs affecting the sites of the genes since the Denisovans.

Also of interest are some supplementary notes. In http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/Meyer_Science_Supp_DenisovaSeq.pdf. It's 132 pages long and will take a while to read so I'll save that for later.

So am I missing something? Where does it say that we inherited those genes from the Denisovans? And for the two or three related to Autism, that relation to Autism seems to exist in mutations of the genes, not the genes themselves.



Anomiel
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14 Jan 2013, 2:41 pm

There were many different magazines publishing the same thing about the genes, I just picked the one I was reading at the time. But you're right, it does not clarify or say anything at all, except mentioning they found them. Just thought it was interesting anyway, and it might lead to something more in the future. I'll read through your links as they say much more about it. But what do you say about the rest of the post? Differences in skull/brain growth in Neanderthals lining up with ASD differences are kind of significant, don't you think? As I've seen you talking about possible explanations to it happening (everything from viral to vitamin D).



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16 Jul 2013, 12:17 am

I doubt the Neanderthals or Denisovans even came close to where I - and many Autistics I know - are from. For example modern East or South Asian populations are probably not mixed with Denisovan, just people from Siberia or something - and you know how many autistic people are pure African? Check out the numbers for the Somalian-American community. Much higher than for the European-descended Americans such as whites and Latinos.



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16 Jul 2013, 11:21 am

The research suggested has been done, on a very large population, but the results are weak. It's described in my blog: http://blog.rdos.net/?p=105.. It's not been published, but who knows one day it might be?

In regards to requests for a link to the Neanderthal theory, it can be found here: http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm



Ettina
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16 Jul 2013, 11:42 am

According to 23andme, I have 3% Neanderthal ancestry. The average European has 2.7%. So not much difference.



Mack27
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05 Dec 2013, 1:02 am

Autistic people with no Neanderthal DNA are not proof that there's no link between Neanderthal DNA and autism. What we call autism is a subjective diagnosis and there could very well be different ways of getting there. Obesity caused by hypothalamus dysfunction and obesity caused by thyroid dysfunction look pretty much the same but have different causes. Maybe in the future when we understand Autism better we'll recognize there are different routes to get there, and possibly something to do with neanderthal ancestry could be a factor. There's no way to rule it out right now. I'm not saying there is any preponderance of evidence suggesting it as a factor either.



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05 Dec 2013, 2:29 am

I am about %3 Neanderthal.