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Janissy
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12 Aug 2013, 12:48 pm

Moondust wrote:
The fact that many NTs HATE us shouldn't be sugarcoated to Aspies. It's a reality that we have to live with and learn as early as possible to protect ourselves from.

Indeed, many NTs don't just reject us but actively HATE us and wish us destroyed. It's generally due to our innocently telling things as we see them and analyse them, with total obliviousness to the political play of powers - our "emperor is nude" comments. These comments destroy their self-delusions, and since these people have their whole lives based on illusion, their whole person is an illusion construct, and we are therefore perceived as maliciously trying to destroy them. Thus the urge to destroy us "back". At worst, they try to destroy us because by telling it like it is, we destroy their game of duping others in the group. In either case, the NT has a very strong need to destroy us, for what they perceive as their very survival.

Again, aspies have to be aware of this to develop ways to protect ourselves, and not be told we're just being "paranoid". Dismissing reality is a dangerous thing to do in this case. We ARE at great risk in these situations, more so if we're taught to blame ourselves for those NTs' hatred.


I think you are right insofar as saying these things will be perceived as an attack even though it was not meant as such. But I think you also seriously underestimate how sturdy self-delusion and illusions are. These mental frameworks really can't be destroyed from the outside, certainly not by comments. Making these comments gets you shoved to the mental periphery as "not one of us", but the illusions and self delusions stay firmly intact. People lose illusions and self delusions sometimes as part of an internal process, but just saying things, even true things, will have zero effect on any delusions, will merely convince the person they shouldn't even try to get along with you.

If you walk into a church and start yelling "there is no God!", the reason the people in the church get mad at you is not because you made them doubt God. You didn't. Nor did you make anybody doubt whatever deluded self concepts they are thinking just by making a comment. Getting people to doubt their self concepts is nowhere near that easy.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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12 Aug 2013, 2:21 pm

aspieMD wrote:
. . . I had a lousy time in high school but joined a group of misfits/outcasts, which included other aspies and a few LGBT. The same happened in college but my circle was a bit larger and more "normal". . .

And think how poorly LGBT persons were treated by much of 'normal' society.

In fact, I think a question in the early days of Civil Rights and Equal Rights for African-Americans was, "Why do white people hate black people so much?"



Daydreamer86
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12 Aug 2013, 3:33 pm

I am quite lucky in that I have several close NT friends who really look after me and help me in social situations and situations in the workplace. I am sorry that people have been so nasty to you, AspieMD. I was bullied at school and some people still take advantage of the fact that I take everything literally and at face value. Sometimes NT people can be surprisingly understanding about the difficulties we face. Recently I had to confide in my boss about another member of staff who I was having issues with (this particular staff member doesn't really understand Aspergers at all which makes life difficult for me) and my boss deliberately avoided making eye contact with me at all as he knows that I can't make eye contact at all when I am stressed and anxious. I think it helps that I work in a special school and so a lot of my colleagues are used to working with people on the autistic spectrum. I think it really depends on who you find-my AS behaviour is slightly more obvious than some members on here have described theirs as being-I jump up and down and clap my hands really quickly when I am excited and bite my knuckles and scratch at my skin when I am agitated but I am still generally well accepted by people. I do appreciate how lucky I am to have this.



Popsicle
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12 Aug 2013, 4:40 pm

I will read more later but basically, to the OP, some people are just very shallow and some people are very insular in that they dislike anyone who isn't exactly like themselves (that's also a bit narcissistic but a lot of people are that way too.) And then NT due to peer pressure and liking to hang out in groups of similar types, often worry that a given person wouldn't fit in (again because they're not exactly like themselves.)

In other words it's a lot of superficial reasons, but a lot of people seem to have a really strong drive to sort everyone into groups, whether it's by skin tone, fashion sense, religious beliefs, cultural background, gender, a million ways.

I'd say keep moving (past the ones who ignore you) until you find someone who can see people as individuals, because that person will likely be a lot more interesting anyway.



aspieguy778
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10 Oct 2013, 7:18 pm

Yeah I see where you are coming from aspieMD. One thing that I have noticed is that NTs unconsciously place a value on a person based upon their degree of social intelligence. They interact with you and subconsciously assign a low value to you, based on your low social intelligence. I think it is an instinctual mechanism. That's the guess best I have for you unfortunately.

By the way are there many aspies in medicine? I am currently studying electrical engineering and since the prevalence of AS is so high, my situation is not as bad as you have described. I empathize with your situation, as I have experienced the same mysterious behavior.



TheygoMew
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10 Oct 2013, 9:36 pm

I stopped caring about what they think about me. There was a time I felt like I was trying to "fix" myself to not have to put up with their bad behavior and that didn't work. Now I realize after watching so many social engagements is that they change the rules at any given time and make up new rules to eliminate those who they don't like. Then when they feel it's a convenience, put on a big fake smile and pretend they are nice caring charitable people.

Just take a deep breath and realize something.

THEY ARE RIGID AS HELL TOO when things don't go their way and complete hypocrites by constantly chastising autistics for the same behavior they too engage in with certain situations. People that act this way have the brain of a bully and they will pick on autistics thanks to the media's subliminal encouragement. They target those who do not have support.



StuckWithin
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12 Oct 2013, 11:41 am

I completely sympathize with anyone who can read social cues (certain ones if not all of them) but struggles to know how to respond. I hear you. Same thing here.

We are trying to reason out our reactions, when for most people there's no reasoning involved; it's just something that happens. Even though I understand this now, it still doesn't address my inability to spontaneously act and react in the "correct" ways.

Being someone with skills others need (even if they don't want to hang out with you "just because") isn't that bad. Find what you are good at and try to become a world expert in it. Eventually you will be respected, and that respect will be more authentic than the fake and fleeting respect behind popularity contests.

Life IS tough, but that's okay, so long as we believe in our own dignity and gifts.


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StarCity
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12 Oct 2013, 12:22 pm

Hi,

I can't say that I have ever noticed that people on the AS are hated by NT's.
My observations however do indicate that many NT's fear us. They are afraid of what they don't understand.
Perhaps; just as we struggle with the NT world, so NT's struggle with the AS world. The difference being that they make up the majority, and we are in a very small minority. The majority consensus is what determines the "norm".
Many people on the AS struggle with understanding body language, and what the various facial expressions mean. That means that they find it very difficult to communicate with others. However, many of those AS people do not show body language or appropriate facial expressions themselves. Therefore NT's cannot "read" them. This would make NT's feel very uncomfortable.
Also, my own experience is that NT's expect every adult to have a partner (girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, or husband). They cannot seem to understand that many AS persons do not want a partner, and are quite happy with being permanently single. I myself have always been single because the social processes of having a partner are baffling to me. In fact it is very difficult to explain as to exactly why because it's just something I cannot grasp/understand.
NT's find it weird that it doesn't even bother me.

So, in my opinion I don't think that NT's hate us, but that they are afraid of what they cannot understand, and what doesn't fit into the "norm".



glow
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13 Oct 2013, 3:13 pm

This thread has had a lot of replies and that is down to the fact there are many different types of users on here. I guess its plain to see what the difference is from someone who is detailed orientated or just focused to some degree. For NTS, they are prone to moods and depression even more than us, because they think and feel everything too literally without basing some knowledge on the facts of the equation. Too often I have been accused of a)worrying too much and b) focusing too much time and energy on the wrong things. well, let me tell you at a glance, science is wrong too. Often people get their hopes up of thinking they have spotted a way out of an abstract equation or answer, when really, its all staring them blank in the face with possible answers and explanations. They just don't want to be called or bothered with them and that's why they team up with thinking that all typical people are expertly involved in their own making of the world and we are not, Fools. If only they'd see, but no they do not.



ASPartOfMe
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13 Oct 2013, 8:04 pm

StarCity wrote:
Hi,

I can't say that I have ever noticed that people on the AS are hated by NT's.
My observations however do indicate that many NT's fear us. They are afraid of what they don't understand.
Perhaps; just as we struggle with the NT world, so NT's struggle with the AS world. The difference being that they make up the majority, and we are in a very small minority. The majority consensus is what determines the "norm".
Many people on the AS struggle with understanding body language, and what the various facial expressions mean. That means that they find it very difficult to communicate with others. However, many of those AS people do not show body language or appropriate facial expressions themselves. Therefore NT's cannot "read" them. This would make NT's feel very uncomfortable.
Also, my own experience is that NT's expect every adult to have a partner (girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, or husband). They cannot seem to understand that many AS persons do not want a partner, and are quite happy with being permanently single. I myself have always been single because the social processes of having a partner are baffling to me. In fact it is very difficult to explain as to exactly why because it's just something I cannot grasp/understand.
NT's find it weird that it doesn't even bother me.

So, in my opinion I don't think that NT's hate us, but that they are afraid of what they cannot understand, and what doesn't fit into the "norm".


Agree about NT fear from non understanding and NT's bafflement that I am not desperately lonely sans partner (although many aspeis have a huge need for a partner).


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aspieMD
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14 Oct 2013, 4:38 am

aspieguy778 wrote:
Yeah I see where you are coming from aspieMD. One thing that I have noticed is that NTs unconsciously place a value on a person based upon their degree of social intelligence. They interact with you and subconsciously assign a low value to you, based on your low social intelligence. I think it is an instinctual mechanism. That's the guess best I have for you unfortunately.

By the way are there many aspies in medicine? I am currently studying electrical engineering and since the prevalence of AS is so high, my situation is not as bad as you have described. I empathize with your situation, as I have experienced the same mysterious behavior.


Very very few of us. They actually actively screen us out during interviews because there is a strong belief in the field that being AS and being a doctor are diametrically opposite, and that all the soft skills that are required for doctors are deficient in aspies (e.g. empathy, tact, social intelligence, rapport-building, motor control).

I literally read on websites that are interview guides that they screen for people who "look to be really weird or mentally off, or showing signs of Asperger's Syndrome, for example."

It's a hard world for us, because even doctors have misconceptions about us up the wazoo.



Victronix
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19 Oct 2013, 3:55 pm

I can relate to some NT's just fine. Those that I can relate to aren't bothered by my AS except when I have meltdowns. I will eliminate the meltdowns, so, therefore, no one will have a problem with my high-functioning autism, anymore.