28% of murderers thought to have suffered from ASD

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I can see how autism, brain damage and environmental psychological problems could contribute to someone acting out violently....just like it could contribute to suicide. I don't see how it mis-represents autistic people when it never even implies the majority of autistic's are murderers waiting to happen and specifically states that people on the spectrum are not more likely to commit murder.

I am just unsure what is being lied about...and the way I see it I am not willing ot be lied to or lied about and cannot see how this article does that.

So why is the study offensive then?

If the study is only about serial killers, makes sense an overrepresentation of suspected ASD:

- for one side, serial killers are "strange" people, and strange people tend to be socially isolated

- for other, serial killing is a repetitive behaviour - systematically murdering people during years

Then, you have the defining traits of autism - social isolation and repetitive behaviour (put it in another way - the same criteria that is used to diagnose almost all famous scientist and thinkers with ASD could also be used to diagnose almost all serial killers).

If anything, what is strange is only 28% of serial killers having ASD traits (perhaps the researchers mixed serial killers with mass murderers - two different categories - in the sample?).

Some are strange for sure, but some aren't (or I should say "don't seem to be"). Of course once you know what they have done, and you discover sides of their personality that were not known before, that only people who were very close to them knew about, like their family, you will think they are strange, but as long as you are unaware of this they may not seem strange at all. That's why serial killers are often so difficult to catch.

Ted Bundy for example, looked like a perfectly normal guy (that's why he was able to fool his victims so easily), he was able to hide his darker side very well. He even worked with politicians and was very charismatic. The other day I was listening to an audio file of his last interview (or one of the last) and it was very creepy because he sounded completely normal. Another one who seemed normal was Isaac Keyes, I even know a man who had hired him at some point (he did some construction/renovation work at his house), and he seemed perfectly normal, but he was a serial killer. And there is many others like them.

There have been several posts critiquing the methods used to associate these murderers with being autistic. For example, taking the actual criteria as a strict guideline, only 2.6% of the offenders actually fit the criteria for autism. The full 28% does not.

That's the lie. At least one of them.

And yet, despite this information being presented by multiple posters, people are still acting as if the Daily Mail article at the start describes factual, empirical information. That article does not.

Also re: snapping, that's a cultural fable. Received wisdom, "common sense," a just-so story, whatever you want to call it. It's a story people tell each other to rationalize why something happened.

Literally no one has said that the article says most murderers have autism or that most people with autism are likely to murder anyone.

But consider, after Adam Lanza and Jared Lee Loughner committed their shootings, you had actual articles in the media talking about how autistic children must be severely controlled just in case they turn out to be spree killers. So a study like this? People aren't going to pay attention to the numbers. They're going to moralize about how dangerous autistic people are.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Actually, I would question two thirds (four of six, so no statistical significance) of that 2.6%.
* A literature search finds nothing in English on Nillson to suggest he's autistic.
* Napper was a paranoid schizophrenic.
* The autism diagnosis of Bryant was questioned by a different psychiatrist, who said " Mr Bryant also lacks, in my opinion, the central features of this condition which are repetitive activities, unusual skills with all absorbing obsessive interests and problems with motor coordination. He also showed marked delay in the acquisition of language skills and required remedial therapy for this language deficit which is contrary to the picture found in those with Asperger's Syndrome."
* I'm pretty dubious about Stayner - mild autism coupled with several confounding issues.

These are most of those the authors thought probably had autism. If that's their standard, the rest is probably BS.

You mean only 2.6% where diagnosed? also the article doesn't seem to be worded in such a way its saying what it says is infallible...seemed like the goal more or less was to study if mass murderers and/or serial killers could sometimes be on the spectrum and be suffering brain damage and other issues which drives them to reach that point....point being individuals could perhaps be helped before it goes so far. Rather then just writing off autistics or people with brain damage and other psych issues as all being potential murderers it just states there's a chance sometimes those factors add up to lead to it, therefore perhaps better help for people in that position might prevent the violent acting out.

I admit though I am not the best with numbers so not sure where you got the 2.6....and 28% really doesn't seem like that ridiculous of a figure, though they should not be saying (insert dead murderer) had autism, unless there was a diagnoses, otherwise they do need to be more specific that its theorized not nessisarily a fact. I just don't see this study really promoting anything bad, seems to just be promoting more research into the topic.

It seems like people are reacting like the article says that....especially some of the first few comments, to me it seems like people are taking it as though it's calling us all murderers....but its possible I am the idiot here and just didn't understand peoples posts?....Also so what they should just avoid releasing studies or looking into the why of why someone does something violent because stupid people might skim through it and decide we're all dangerous? I mean if things like a combination of autism and psychological issues topped with bullying could lead to violent behavior....then that needs to be known so people can be helped. Of course there are people who are extreme and think that means they should just lock up everyone who's different...but its good to know what factors can lead to murders and school shootings so that those can be adressed. I myself had thoughts of harming others as a kid when I was picked on and ostracized if I had a gun I might have thought of shooting them for all i know....but turns out I am more dangerous to myself so yeah I can see how that would happen.

Every time I have seen the title for this post, a thought keeps coming to my mind. But I never posted it. But now I am. And I know there are more things to reading statistics than what I am saying here, so just take it in humor (although I know this is not a humorous topic). But if 28% of murderers are thought to have an ASD, then that means 72% of murderers are thought to be NT. Hmm, I guess it looks like our ASD population is less dangerous than the NT population. Now I expect a bunch of responses on how that is flawed logic in thinking. And yes, it is. I know one needs to take into consideration the much smaller percentage of our ASD population as compared to the NT population. So just remember, this is just a little humorous thought I keep thinking. And also, just because one isn't in the ASD population does not mean he/she is necessarily NT.

Now in serious discussion. I keep thinking that the number of people on this earth that are free from all the conditions that we call diseases/ disorders/ differences (or whatever your preference is for conditions of the mind) are few. There are many conditions that may lead to one becoming a murderer or other type of criminal. The actual condition may not be an ASD, but some other underlying factor that these individuals happen to have. I believe that a psychological analysis of most people would find several conditions not considered the norm.

I think the key question here is, "Does having an ASD make one more susceptible to acquiring the evil condition to make one become a murderer?" My opinion is "No." And if one looks at numbers, the majority of murderers do not have an ASD, therefore it must be this some other condition that creates the tendency to become a murderer. But 28% is a high percentage when one wants to start pointing fingers. So we that are ASD need to prepare ourselves to defend our ASD condition in times where the media begins pointing fingers at us. We do not want the world to think that we are more dangerous than the so-called "norm." We are human beings, not monsters.

I didn't mean to imply that such a treatment couldn't lead to the person becoming more compassionate. It could go either way, depending on the person. My own Mother's poor treatment of me influenced how I grew up because I decided that I didn't want to be like her, so I know where you are coming from.

But, different people respond differently and if they get bad enough to hurt other people, it is only then that the public will see them. Then they go and look for the easiest thing to detect without digging too deep. "Oh, these people all might have mental disorders, that must be the problem" is a quick and easy connection to make. And people as a whole will always take convenience over digging deeper for the truth. It saves them time and money.

Sadly, most people don't really seem give much attention to the victims, just the people who hurt them. It's a major problem.

sorry, I still thought this was on page 4

Some users said there is extensive literature about serial killers having asd traits. Sources? I am interested in reading about it.

this.
even IF asd is really more common in murderers, it would mainly mean autistics are more prone to being excluded psychosocially and experiencing traumatizing events. They have to take this into consideration. It doesn't necessarily mean a person with asd is more prone to becoming a murderer or that asd causes it somehow.
this study seems to have lots of flaws as tons of users have suggested and I am not going to repeat. I think it should not have been published. People that study humanities, social studies, psychology have to be careful about what they assert. If you are studying atoms in physics the atom isn't influenciated by what you say or don't say about them. In social sciences etc this is different! Assertives have real consequences for real people! Damn it. Researches have to be responsible about that. If they are not concient about that, why are they studying people anyway?


abuse victims don't become abusers, but abusers are more likely to have suffered traumas or violence.

Last edited by linatet on 23 May 2014, 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I phrased badly last night. Language is hard lately. Point being that 28% of them being autistic is completely false. Thank you for elaboration and correction.

See Niall's response.

The study states that these factors can add up to it, but the factors are not accurately or truthfully described.



So blatantly false statistics are okay with you if the number doesn't seem to be that ridiculous of a figure? The problem with the figure is that it misrepresents the study's results, and the study itself uses extremely lax guidelines to group murderers as autistic.

I got the 2.6% from earlier in the thread. I believe it is also in the study. That's why I suggested reading entire thread.

1. It seems to me people are reacting to an article claiming significant number of murderers as autistic. This is a reasonable emotional reaction to having falsehoods spread about one's self or about a group a person is a part of.

2. On one end of your false dilemma you have studies like this that blatantly misrepresent statistics to describe murderers as autistic. On the other end of your false dilemma you have "also so what they should just avoid releasing studies or looking into the why of why someone does something violent because stupid people might skim through it and decide we're all dangerous?" Your comment has nothing to do with what I said that I can determine. Between these two extremes are possibilities of research that do not misrepresent a higher proportion of murderers as autistic than truly exist.

3. People don't just snap and go on killing sprees because of mental illness or neurodevelopmental disorders. Focusing on mental illness is a way to sidestep focusing on the actual, known demographics of spree and serial killers (white men) because being "white" and being "men" are not properly seen as actual demographics, but rather as a default from which everyone else varies in some way.

Please read the actual thread, the criticisms of the study, the actual study. Everything you are saying has been addressed by someone earlier in the thread, but you don't seem to be aware of this.