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Eloa
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25 Apr 2015, 5:38 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Fluid reasoning is using intelligence in situations that don't depend on knowledge.
Applying one's knowledge in different situations and gaining new knowledge are other ways to use intelligence.

btbnnyr - Have you read any of the studies suggesting that people with Asperger’s have higher levels of fluid intelligence? If so, what were your thoughts on those studies?

As a note, when I was diagnosed, the clinical psychologist administered the WAIS-IV. I scored highest on Matrix Reasoning (98%) and Arithmetic (99%). By a fairly wide margin. I find it interesting that the primary WAIS-IV sub-tests for measuring fluid reasoning are Matrix Reasoning, Figure Weights and Arithmetic.


I also got administered WAIS-IV and had a high score on Matrix Reasoning but do not know percentile, it was that assessor said that I had high score.
I read that Ravens Progressive Matrix measures fluid intelligence as it is not depending on factors as education, culture, gender and more, and it is to recognize patterns and problem-solving versus crystalline intelligence depending on experience, Knowledge, vocabulary, general information and analogies.


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btbnnyr
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25 Apr 2015, 8:05 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Fluid reasoning is using intelligence in situations that don't depend on knowledge.
Applying one's knowledge in different situations and gaining new knowledge are other ways to use intelligence.

btbnnyr - Have you read any of the studies suggesting that people with Asperger’s have higher levels of fluid intelligence? If so, what were your thoughts on those studies?

As a note, when I was diagnosed, the clinical psychologist administered the WAIS-IV. I scored highest on Matrix Reasoning (98%) and Arithmetic (99%). By a fairly wide margin. I find it interesting that the primary WAIS-IV sub-tests for measuring fluid reasoning are Matrix Reasoning, Figure Weights and Arithmetic.

btbnnyr wrote:
You figure out the patterns from the items in the problems, not using previous knowledge.

So, I am still trying to grasp this concept of fluid intelligence. What I noticed, at least about myself, is that I tend to be good at spotting patterns. I also seem good at identifying patterns that are similar to patterns I have seen in the past. And, oftentimes, when describing situations, I use analogy to explain how a pattern I am seeing now is similar to a pattern I have seen in the past. So, I guess what I am getting at, is that my pattern matching capability is enhanced by having prior knowledge (essentially, I have built up a database of patterns that I have seen in the past). Is this same or different from what you are describing?

Also, I am a bit curious if there is a relationship between fluid reasoning and systems thinking.


I think there is not yet enough evidence to say that people with AS or people with ASD have superior fluid intelligence. This would have to be shown multiple times with different samples to provide preponderance of evidence in this direction. So far, there is enough evidence to think maybe it's true and study further.

I think that your application of a previously spotted pattern to a new situation is a fluid reasoning behavior. You were able to recognize that a certain pattern applied. This is different from recalling factual information like "What is..." or "Who is...", or what vocabulary words mean, or what social conventions mean.

Of course knowledge and intelligence tend to go together. All the adults I know with high intelligence also have lots of knowledge of their fields, as they were smart enough to acquire it. Many children have high intelligence, but not that much knowledge. I would say that before the age of 10, I was a kid who had little knowledge, but high fluid reasoning skills. Then, at age 10, I started reading lots of non-fiction books and developing topic-based special interests, and that led to gaining lots of knowledge.


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jenisautistic
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26 Apr 2015, 1:48 am

My iq changed from 87 to 89. When i was a little kid I was mildly delayed mentally them went from above( I believe) to advrage to below advrage


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olympiadis
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26 Apr 2015, 11:04 am

There is definitely a difference between the ability to adopt and host patterns/algorithms from the outside and the ability to construct your own internally. However, none of the brain's abilities exist in a vacuum, so there is always a lot of overlap between functions/abilities.

Social interaction seem strongly based on the ability to host/copy external memes, as well as spread them. This seems true regardless of the individuals ability to analyze/understand the memes, or the ability to create new ones.

It is clear that culture determines what types of patterns that we get rewarded for recognizing, so there will always be a correlation between culture and IQ score.

By the way I like Dean Radin and think he has been quite brave in his field of study.


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26 Apr 2015, 11:50 am

I don't know what my IQ is, but I suspect it is in the gifted range. I learned to read really early and have always done well in school. In some ways, that has made it easier for me, because I am able to keep up with the class and not fall behind. But when I was younger I also felt very self-conscious about being smart. My grade one teacher made me work from a different reading book from the rest of the class, and that made me feel even more isolated than I already was. I would sometimes pretend not to know things that I did know because I didn't want too much attention on me. I didn't think it was "cool" to be smart, especially since I didn't have any other talents besides school stuff. So in some ways I think I would have almost felt more normal if I had a lower IQ.



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26 Apr 2015, 1:06 pm

jenisautistic wrote:
My iq changed from 87 to 89. When i was a little kid I was mildly delayed mentally them went from above( I believe) to advrage to below advrage
My IQ is low average (below 90).


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CaroK
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27 Apr 2015, 11:50 am

I took a Mensa test at 30, soon after I'd had my first child, as I felt my brain had turned to mush with looking after her (she was was hyperactive and has many other mental problems as she has grown up). I got a score of 165, which I was ok with that, as I'd been scored just a little higher than that when I was at school, and getting that score gave me confidence that I hadn't lost much of my previous logical thinking.

As others have said, it is just a score in a test, a test that my brain is just made for. I excelled at Mathematics at school and university (got a First Class Honours, with 100% mark on my logics final and my thesis being taken on as teaching material by the university).
But I narrowly scraped through subjects at school where I had to write my opinions about things (like History, Economics, etc) as I just didn't get it - things are or they're not - I can only deal with facts.
A super-high IQ doesn't help you deal with life or other people, and I've NEVER told anyone except my closest relatives what my IQ is, as I often don't act intelligently around people.



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27 Apr 2015, 12:09 pm

This is correct. IQ is more of a test of rote-memorisation-ability than that of innovative-ability.

CaroK wrote:
I took a Mensa test at 30, soon after I'd had my first child, as I felt my brain had turned to mush with looking after her (she was was hyperactive and has many other mental problems as she has grown up). I got a score of 165, which I was ok with that, as I'd been scored just a little higher than that when I was at school, and getting that score gave me confidence that I hadn't lost much of my previous logical thinking.

As others have said, it is just a score in a test, a test that my brain is just made for. I excelled at Mathematics at school and university (got a First Class Honours, with 100% mark on my logics final and my thesis being taken on as teaching material by the university).
But I narrowly scraped through subjects at school where I had to write my opinions about things (like History, Economics, etc) as I just didn't get it - things are or they're not - I can only deal with facts.
A super-high IQ doesn't help you deal with life or other people, and I've NEVER told anyone except my closest relatives what my IQ is, as I often don't act intelligently around people.


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Rocket123
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28 Apr 2015, 1:13 pm

Ban-Dodger wrote:
This is correct. IQ is more of a test of rote-memorisation-ability than that of innovative-ability.

Which IQ test are you referring to? I took the WAIS ~ 2 years ago and I don't recall any of the sub tests (other than Digit Span) being based upon rote-memorization.



AspieUtah
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28 Apr 2015, 1:30 pm

Ban-Dodger wrote:
This is correct. IQ is more of a test of rote-memorisation-ability than that of innovative-ability

Including visual-spatial IQ tests? It would be difficult, in my opinion, to memorize the answers to one of those tests.


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28 Apr 2015, 1:47 pm

I don't think my IQ says much about me that's important in real life. I may be able to do a lot of tasks well in a quiet room where the only objective is to do a straightforward task that I have received instructions for, but in my opinion, if I can't have meaningful interactions with friends and have enough common sense to live independently, I'm not very intelligent overall.



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28 Apr 2015, 2:29 pm

I think application of intelligence of things that people do in daily life and towards their goals and relationships with others is much more important than IQ numbers.


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elysian1969
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29 Apr 2015, 3:05 pm

Practical application is where it's at. Sometimes I feel as if I have a head full of useless ephemera- interesting stuff, perhaps, but how well do I function? What practical purpose does my existence fulfill? I am still working on that one.

Some days I do extremely well navigating the world of normal, and other days I am a dismal failure.

As I once told my son, if I do nothing else for you, I might make you laugh, and hopefully I will help expand your vocabulary.

If that's all it's worth to have an IQ of 157 at age 5, then apparently that number or that classification doesn't mean that much. When I was younger I'd have given anything to be physically, intellectually and socially "normal" like both of my sisters were- anything to not be the freak. They were pretty and popular, and played sports, and had all the right friends, even if they actually did have to study and struggle to get decent grades. I was the geeky, sickly little klutz kid with the bad glasses and worn out clothes who was always terrified and hiding behind a book.

Today I rather prefer the way I am. I am quite comfortable in my own company, and as far as what anyone else thinks about that, just being the way I am tells me who my friends are- and aren't. It took many years to get to that place though.
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btbnnyr
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29 Apr 2015, 3:29 pm

IQ number alone means little in my opinion.
High IQ doesn't make someone a genius.
Innovations using intelligence make people geniuses.


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olympiadis
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29 Apr 2015, 10:18 pm

Imagine you have a large key-ring with a couple hundred different keys on it and throughout the day different people come up to you with a different lock and expect you to quickly find the key that fits their lock on your ring so you can unlock for them.

You can always unlock their lock eventually by going through a systematic pattern checking routine. It just takes some time and may appear a bit clumsy.

Now maybe it's a bit easier to understand how one can have a very high IQ yet still have trouble functioning in society.



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30 Apr 2015, 11:25 am

I have found that the systematic pattern checking routine doesn't apply much in my life.
I don't apply it during social interactions, which are me being myself, or non-social tasks of daily living, which I have learned and are fast and automatic.


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