Does anyone here believe in reinarnation?

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Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 1:51 pm

I think my problem with believing in reincarnation is the same as believing in a soul (and therefore concepts like an afterlife of any sort).
Please, keep in mind that this is my reality, the results of my own personal explorations and rational study. Your mileage may vary and no refunds or guarantees are implied or expressed. Knowing this enables and encourages me to try to value every moment of life I have and try to do the best I can because it tells me that this is all I get. I have no special attribute over any other life, be it a tree fungus, a willow tree or a songbird, only different attributes. But then I also see all live on earth as one disparate and highly branched single organism; in that regard I am equivalent to a single cell. Cells reproduce (or not) and die and are replaced, but the greater organism lives on.

My person - the unique individual that lives in this body - is the result of that body. We are the connections of our neurons, the shifting levels of our endocrine systems, the transport of our neurotransmitters. Structures, connections, receptors all encoded in the blueprints of our DNA, imperfectly made real over a long process of development in a semi-random environment and then modified by the slow shaping of the plastic layers on top from experience. There is no doubt of this, especially when the effects of physical or chemical change or damage are observed. Yes, we have a sense of self, and consciousness and even consciousness of our sense of self, but that is not sufficient evidence of a 'soul', a 'spirit' or other essence that is more than the sum of the parts, or separate from it. Those concepts were invented before we even knew that the brain did anything other than cool the blood. People exist who through damage or drugs or development only have partial awareness, consciousness and the like. In a similar fashion we are discovering that other animals not only have varying degrees of what we consider consciousness, but also types of consciousness we will never experience. But none of this points me to the possibility of existing outside of the highly ordered structures and dynamic changes of our physical body.


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Scarabola
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12 May 2016, 2:03 pm

We're pretty much highly advanced robots. Our memories and minds are just the product of the chemicals and proteins in our brains. We don't have souls. When we die, our brains die, and so do our memories and consciousnesses.



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12 May 2016, 2:20 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Structures, connections, receptors all encoded in the blueprints of our DNA, imperfectly made real over a long process of development in a semi-random environment and then modified by the slow shaping of the plastic layers on top from experience. There is no doubt of this, especially when the effects of physical or chemical change or damage are observed.


Scarabola wrote:
We're pretty much highly advanced robots. Our memories and minds are just the product of the chemicals and proteins in our brains. We don't have souls. When we die, our brains die, and so do our memories and consciousnesses.


I think you are both right and it can be proven experimentally. You can damage and permanently destroy memories by consuming large doses of Lorazepam and Ethanol. This is not recommended though it has been known to happen.


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Eloa
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12 May 2016, 2:32 pm

i have read really interesting testimonies about near-death-experiences like about a woman, who was born blind and was never able to see and after having an accident was facing death for a couple minutes but she could see from the ceiling down to her body what people were doing to reanimate her or a man who saw where the nurse has put his set of teeth as she could not remember anymore.
i am interested in the concept of consciousness or a soul and reading a book at the moment where the author claims to have discovered a point where religion and science meet, but i am not there yet, only at page 180 and 364 more to go but i am a bit slow at reading at the moment.


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Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 7:47 pm

Scarabola wrote:
This_Space_Intentionally_Left_Blank wrote:
I would not say that. Atheists believe strongly and have faith in many things. They just reject the common human belief in a deity. Most of the Atheists I know of have a very strong set of moral beliefs that they cannot in good conscience violate.



Atheists such as Dawkins have faith in the scientific method, but only because of the abundant evidence for it that makes us rely on it 100%

I think this explains it perfectly.


When we build and design airplanes, we use science. It's not because we just have faith in science, but if we don't follow the laws observed by science then that plane isn't going anywhere.


Atheism and science are two separate things. Atheism merely describes a person who does not believe in a supernatural deity that is responsible for creation and in some belief systems, the everyday actions and even thoughts of people.

Science is a method of determining what can be assumed "true" in a practical sense. As such, it's findings are accepted or not accepted; faith is somewhat the opposite. Faith is belief in the absence of proof, or more and more these days, in the face of proof.

Sad thing is they could co-exit but it would take a set of beliefs that few organized religions today find palatable.


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beady
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12 May 2016, 8:13 pm

There is no proof for or against whether memories are lost with drugs use, alzheimers, or death. Just because you you have lost the neural connecton or ability to access them does not mean they are gone.



Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 9:26 pm

beady wrote:
There is no proof for or against whether memories are lost with drugs use, alzheimers, or death. Just because you you have lost the neural connecton or ability to access them does not mean they are gone.

Schrödinger's memories?

Memories - such as they are - are stored in the synapses. If the structure of the neurons or their connectivity or their functionality is changed the memories as perceived change, too. The basic problem is that much as we like to think of them that way, memories are not an actual "thing" like a photo or video file. They are at best a simulation of a re-creation of the state the brain was in when an event happened, but they are rarely a simple replay of the exact stimulus. As the brain changes with experience, aging and the like, so do our memories.


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friedmacguffins
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13 May 2016, 11:53 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
As a Christian, I have struggled with the concepts of fate, grace, and predestination, which mean that life isn't actually fair.

Some people do claim to have menial, past lives.

Yet, it is written that the Earth can cry out (psychic impression?) and the demons do reincarnate.

In theory, many people may remember the same person, contemporaneously.

Notorious or traumatic energies may have a stronger effect.

untilwereturn wrote:
Biblical passages that talk about the earth crying out, or the trees of the field clapping their hands, or the mountains breaking into song aren't mean to be literal statements but metaphors for how even nature responds to its Creator.


One might interpret the Bible to be speaking literally, about different eras of time, called dispensations, in which case, some of the rules are subject to change.

In this dispensation, consciousness experiments have involved the use of galvanometers, to find cyclical changes in inanimate objects. Their internal structure can be observably affected, with a word.

Who that sensitive people can never be affected by the thought, which affects a photon, mineral, germ, or plant, or that they can never shout.

untilwereturn wrote:
On the other hands, I don't know of any biblical text that mentions demons reincarnating. The closest thing to that would be demons possessing living creatures temporarily - as we see multiple times in the New Testament.


Yes, we are both using different words, to describe the same basic concept.

Could pigs share a working memory, with the demoniac of Gadarenes?

The concept of a reincarnation supposes that a spirit of some sort is exchanging vessels, in the same respect that you may change a shirt or a car.

One Bible passage uses the allegory of a messy house. Demons return to find it cleaned.

Do they carry emotional baggage?

Do places and things carry it, too?



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13 May 2016, 12:01 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
memories are not an actual "thing" like a photo or video file. They are at best a simulation of a re-creation of the state the brain was in when an event happened, but they are rarely a simple replay of the exact stimulus. As the brain changes with experience, aging and the like, so do our memories.


What She said.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1234 ... al-neurons


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vickygleitz
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14 May 2016, 7:40 pm

I am open to the possibility, shoot, probability, of reincarnation. What I do not believe is that if I did have a past life that being Autistic is any type of "payback."

I grew up in family filled with sadistic monsters. I often wonder if I was not Autistic, if I would have been like them. if reincarnation is true, possibly I was made Autistic to protect me from also being a monster.



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14 May 2016, 8:31 pm

Eloa wrote:
i have read really interesting testimonies about near-death-experiences like about a woman, who was born blind and was never able to see and after having an accident was facing death for a couple minutes but she could see from the ceiling down to her body what people were doing to reanimate her or a man who saw where the nurse has put his set of teeth as she could not remember anymore.
i am interested in the concept of consciousness or a soul and reading a book at the moment where the author claims to have discovered a point where religion and science meet, but i am not there yet, only at page 180 and 364 more to go but i am a bit slow at reading at the moment.



Funny thing is all those types of claims are all hearsay or myth or whatever .... as usual , conveniently no actual evidence or proof .



CKhermit
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14 May 2016, 9:54 pm

The claimants just expect everyone to believe it because they do or "experienced it" People just like a good story. I do too but I like to know fantasy from reality. I follow the evidence. I don't pick and choose what I want to be true. It just is or isn't. Independent of my "feelings"



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15 May 2016, 2:50 am

CKhermit wrote:
The claimants just expect everyone to believe it because they do or "experienced it" People just like a good story. I do too but I like to know fantasy from reality. I follow the evidence. I don't pick and choose what I want to be true. It just is or isn't. Independent of my "feelings"



As I mentioned previously , there's a fund of one MILLION dollars available to anyone able to prove anything 'weird and wonderful' like reincarnation or ghosts or levitation or telekinetic whatever .... All one person has to do is to prove something in ' scientific conditions ' . So far not one person has been able to prove anything in over 50 years :)



The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge has been on by the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) to pay out one million U.S. dollars to anyone who can demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under agreed-upon scientific testing criteria. The apparently simple challenge was first issued in 1964, and over a thousand people have applied to take it since then, but none has yet been successful. Many have tried to cheat and were exposed .



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15 May 2016, 2:59 am

DancingCorpse wrote:
I've always felt that I would claw my own eyes out with a wooden spoon coated in mouldy bread crumbs before I am reincarnated, I have waded through crud creek and fought too hard to get to this sense of cohesion I've started piecing together on this shore, I would absolutely abhor having to experience life and forget all I have learned and grown from, some people find it a stunning thing to potentially be reincarnated but I don't like the idea at ALL. I may have thought differently if I was squirming around impaled on a spike, an eighteen year old kid in some epic grotesque battle of the past though... but from my current vantage point no thanks I would rather have the one life and progression onwards when I kick the bucket, if there's nothing, then I would definitely advocate reincarnation for those who've had not much chance at life and growing but not for me, I'm quite serene with my arc and potency of my journey so far, it's very meaningful and I don't want to be painted over by some cosmic law that casts me back, it would be absolute lunacy to have to start again all for nothing!


So beautifully written!
Thank you. :D



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15 May 2016, 3:08 am

Science cannot dictate to me what to believe.

Science probably doesn't believe Mom came to sit by my bed when I had a concussion but I do, even though she passed so many years ago.

Can science prove Mother Love? No, I mean, prove it to me. Prove this mother loves her infant. Give it to me in quantitative measurements as to quantity and quality.

I respect science but hate to hear Science accepted as the sole authority.



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15 May 2016, 6:58 am

Claradoon wrote:
Can science prove Mother Love?


Science doesn't prove the sky is blue. Science explains why the sky is blue. So you question is flawed but the answer is still yes.


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