Sorry I have to ask this

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EzraS
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28 Dec 2016, 1:00 am

League_Girl wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I have an extremely bad memory. Others are able to keep track of what I say much better than I can. The online friend that I talk to daily mentions stuff I have posted in the past that I do not remember saying. Or tell me I already asked him the same question a couple of times already, or don't I remember he explained to me how some aspect of the online game we play and I forgot. Also I am not good at keeping track of other members or remembering having conversations or arguments with them or whatever.

I try to ask questions in general or talk about a group in general. When I am discussing politics like I have been a lot, I just want to talk about how things seem with a whole group of people and not make it personal. But I suppose when I ask about or say something about a group, someone will take it personally. Most people this thread seem to understand why I asked the question I did and gave me good answers and it looks like a good thread with good information.

For some reason I can relate to this because I also don't remember everything I say or ask or even keep track of people and people have brought up things to me I have said I had no memory of and one thing I find weird is how I can talk to someone online and then literally forget about that discussion we had only to find out later the have held that against me. They remember while I have no memory and it's like they had held a grudge and didn't let it go while I probably didn't find it all that important so I forgot about it. But that doesn't mean you are free from the responsibility just because you don't remember. My mom used to tell me when I was a kid, "just because you don't remember doesn't mean it never happened." I think part of it was I lived in the moment so anything that happened was over. Because it was over, I wanted nothing to do with it because it already happened and because I had no memory of it or I had already moved on from it, I expected others to get over it too and move on. It was also like I had no TOM about it because I expected them to be like me and feel the same way about it as me. But also the "just because you don't remember it happened doesn't mean it never did" also backfired because I started to believe everything people would tell me I did so for a couple of years I thought I stabbed a boy in my History class with a plastic fork and it stuck in his neck. Kids asked me about it and I actually admitted it but I also said "I don't remember doing that but if that is what I actually did, I don't remember." I can't imagine the shock the kid must have had who made it up. I feel just like Butters because he believes everything you tell him so if you told him he took your video game, he would believe you even though you know he didn't. Eventually I had to learn to trust my own memory because people were starting to take advantage of me about it, even online. I will also pick my battles like if someone accuses me of something I have no memory of doing and if it's not worth the argument I will just say "I don't remember that happened but if it did, sorry about it" and move on and it doesn't matter if it actually happened or not. I would only hope the person just feels better. I am not going to gaslight myself wondering if that really happened or not or if they are mistaking and think it was me.

An idea I have for your dilemma is why not bookmark this thread or save the link somewhere or copy and paste all these responses to a word document so you can always look at it to refresh yourself so that way you aren't asking this over and over.

Because I'll forget I have it book marked or why I have it bookmarked or whatever. Plus there's a lot of turnover here, so if I as the same question I asked several months ago or a couple of years ago, new people will have a chance to answer. To me it's all about getting and supplying information. Sometimes I will ask a question to something I know the answer to to get other points of view. Or because I think it's something that should be the subject of a conversation.

ArielsSong
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28 Dec 2016, 1:52 am

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive. That said, in this thread he's asked respectfully and I've made efforts to answer genuinely. Right now, he's doing it right, and I think we need to take that at face value and reward it with the answers he's asking for.

If we bring in his past and criticise his previous lines of questioning in every thread he posts, he's never going to be encouraged to improve.

I understand that BirdInFlight will, rightly, find that very difficult. This new thread doesn't just wipe away Ezra's previous comments. But, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in the hope that we'll see more of these respectfully worded questions and less of his previous approach.

League_Girl
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28 Dec 2016, 2:10 am

I also remember comments made by Ezra about "mild" aspies and so called "high functioning" folks but I can't recall him ever arguing with anyone about it or being aggressive. But I have seen he has changed his views because I have seen him say how "mild" ones even experience the same issues as those with severe autism. Like him, I also can't remember him arguing with BIF.

When he posted this thread, I thought he was only asking a general question so I gave a general answer because I took it literal while everyone else made it about them because they talked about themselves and their experience. But I guess that had to do with his posting history on this topic so they assumed this was about them. :shrugs:

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EzraS
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28 Dec 2016, 2:14 am

ArielsSong wrote:

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive.

Well considering how accusatory and aggressive BirdinFlight has been towards me in this thread, it was obviously a two way street. So you or her don't actually have a legitimate complaint. Just a gripe and a grudge. Now this is where you start crying about how mean I'm being to you and how rude I am, right? And then two years from now, you can go on about how badly I mistreated you in this thread. And then a couple of others in this thread will join in to back you up.

Everybody seeing how this works?

Last edited by EzraS on 28 Dec 2016, 2:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

teksla
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28 Dec 2016, 2:15 am

The people who cant handle the internet shouldnt be on the internet

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ArielsSong
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28 Dec 2016, 2:16 am

EzraS wrote:

ArielsSong wrote:

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive.

I'm going to assume you stopped reading after the first sentence or two.

(And also, I suppose, that you've missed my previous posts in this thread which did not bring up any past behaviour).

Last edited by ArielsSong on 28 Dec 2016, 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

wilburforce
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28 Dec 2016, 2:16 am

ArielsSong wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

Ashariel wrote:

I haven't posted in a while, but just wanted to confirm what BirdInFlight has said. The OP's attitude and long-standing history of dismissing the struggles of higher-functioning autistics is one reason why I lost interest in being part of this community months ago.

Several attempts have been made to kindly, patiently, and thoroughly answer this exact question in the past, only to be met with continued skepticism, ignorance, and juvenile lack of respect on his part.

It is my opinion that the OP lacks the theory of mind to understand this issue at all, and that there is zero point in trying to explain it to him any further.

I have run into this issue with this poster before too. I also suspect ToM issues. Often he tries to force conformation to his view, rather than try to understand what is said.

EzraS wrote:

Considering all the negative things this person has said about me in an aggressive manner, they were most likely very aggressive and negative in whatever argument we had. Most likely what transpired was a result of cause and effect. They were hostile, aggressive, rude whatever to me and I was hostile, aggressive and rude back to them. That's what happens in personal arguments. And unfortunately some people hold grudges and are not willing to acknowledge their own bad behavior and play the victim card.

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wilburforce
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28 Dec 2016, 2:21 am

EzraS wrote:

ArielsSong wrote:

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive.

Well considering how accusatory and aggressive BirdinFlight has been towards me in this thread, it was obviously a two way street. So you or her don't actually have a legitimate complaint. Just a gripe and a grudge. Now this is where you start crying about how mean I'm being to you and how rude I am, right? And then two years from now, you can go on about how badly I mistreated you in this thread. And then a couple of others in this thread will so up to back you up.

Everybody seeing how this works?

If you can't remember the conversation, how can you know whether you were unnecessarily rude and dismissive or not? How do you know BIF is being unfairly "aggressive" in her representation of the argument (which was months ago, not years ago) if you admittedly don't remember the conversation or her at all?

neurotypicalET
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28 Dec 2016, 2:27 am

I wouldn't like it if the OP would leave...he keeps me humble....considering the severity of his autism and yet he manages to stay positive....it makes my personal problems seem petty in comparison....

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28 Dec 2016, 3:10 am

Please don't turn this into a thread for berating EzraS. On this thread, he has not posted anything offensive, so please do not use this thread as a platform for fight about former arguments. We are the aggressors in this confrontation, and I do hold myself responsible, as a post of mine was the catalyst for the revisitation of this past quarrel. I am sincerely sorry.

Also, I think that this is a forum for anybody with any for of ASD and beyond, and would not wish that anybody leave.
Once again, I apologise.
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EzraS
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28 Dec 2016, 3:29 am

wilburforce wrote:

EzraS wrote:

ArielsSong wrote:

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive.

Well considering how accusatory and aggressive BirdinFlight has been towards me in this thread, it was obviously a two way street. So you or her don't actually have a legitimate complaint. Just a gripe and a grudge. Now this is where you start crying about how mean I'm being to you and how rude I am, right? And then two years from now, you can go on about how badly I mistreated you in this thread. And then a couple of others in this thread will so up to back you up.

Everybody seeing how this works?

I'm applying my interpretation based on deductive reasoning. It takes two to tango. Someone is just being a butthurt crybaby.

And what's the point of all this, a few people trying to convince everyone else that I'm rude and aggressive? Well then tough sh!t, don't read my posts or interact with me if that's how they want to see it, I really couldn't care less.

Any legitimate complaints against me can be submitted to WP moderators.

teksla
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28 Dec 2016, 3:30 am

EzraS wrote:

I agree with you EzraS

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underwater
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28 Dec 2016, 3:32 am

The problem with these threads is that someone always ends up getting hurt.

About not being able to handle the Internet......guys, this is a support site.

Theory of Mind issues abound.

To be brutally frank:

BirdInFlight, you don't have to take Ezra seriously. He's a kid.

Ezra, you have to find some way of realizing that the world is bigger than the little bubble you live in.

I solved some of it by reading lots of fiction, and then once I had a chance, I started simply exposing myself to all kinds of situations, just to learn by experience. That is obviously not going to work for you; in that case listening to other people's stories and trying to understand can be helpful. It will take a lot of time.

Now I have probably offended both of you, but I really hate seeing you guys hurting each other.

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wilburforce
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28 Dec 2016, 4:16 am

EzraS wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

EzraS wrote:

ArielsSong wrote:

I can also confirm what BirdInFlight has said. I remember threads that EzraS was involved in, where he was very accusatory and aggressive.

Well considering how accusatory and aggressive BirdinFlight has been towards me in this thread, it was obviously a two way street. So you or her don't actually have a legitimate complaint. Just a gripe and a grudge. Now this is where you start crying about how mean I'm being to you and how rude I am, right? And then two years from now, you can go on about how badly I mistreated you in this thread. And then a couple of others in this thread will so up to back you up.

Everybody seeing how this works?

The problem with that is while you are using "deductive reasoning" to analyse a conversation you don't actually remember, we actually remember it. You were very harsh with BIF when she was just trying to help you understand that not everyone's struggles look the same from the outside and asking you not to invalidate her diagnosis because you can't understand what it's like to be "higher functioning" (I personally hate that term, but don't know what else to use in its place). That's what happened. And because this was just months ago and was very upsetting for BIF, asking this same question again was bound to prick at those not-healed wounds--and you not remembering the previous conversation does not make it reasonable to expect that everyone else should feel as little about it as you do because you don't remember it. This seems to be a pattern with you when anyone confronts you with something you've said about a topic you admittedly don't understand, you get very sarcastic and dismissive in your tone. I know tone is hard to manage on the internet/in text and that might not be your intention to sound so snarky, but that has been the impression you have left with a few of us. It's creating difficulties in communication, misunderstandings. I am trying to be diplomatic here, but I'm not used to talking to teenagers (not since I was one a couple decades ago) so I don't really know how to go about that. No one thinks you should leave. All we are asking is that you consider the tone you take with people sometimes, and how that impacts communication with you.

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28 Dec 2016, 4:24 am

EzraS wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Ezra are you asking about the past or the present day?

I don't know what you mean.

Are you asking how can somebody be autistic and get into adulthood without bieng suspected or identified which is the topic tends to dominate these type of threads or are you asking how can somebody be autistic today irregardless of age and nobody reconizes it?

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underwater
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28 Dec 2016, 4:32 am

EzraS wrote:

underwater wrote:

I don't think my opinions should always be filtered through my age. I don't think I live in a bubble any more than anyone else does. I get up and go to school the same as people who get up and go to work. I have to deal with teachers the same as they have to deal with bosses. I have to deal with classmates they way they have to deal with coworkers. I have to deal with my household family the same as they have to deal with theirs. I have to deal with deadlines and commitments, running late, the grind and the rat race just like everyone else. I experience Manic Mondays like everyone else. I watch and read the news a great deal and do a tremendous amount of interacting online.

However, that being said.... an adult getting all jacked up over something a smartass 14 year old said two years ago, is just plain silly.

Trust me, ten years from now you're going to be happy people weren't always taking you seriously. And the reason I can say this is all the stuff I myself have regretted saying. I finally understood why people kept telling me I was arrogant.

Also, you are underestimating what years of abuse can do to someone's personality, mainly because you are too young and haven't watched it happening over time. The young always assume that damaged adults are somehow stupid. It's not a question of intelligence, but of severity of trauma. It's scary to think that it could happen to anybody, so a lot of people prefer not to believe that.

As for the things you are comparing......no. They are not the same. The school reality, perhaps. Also, I guess severe ASD makes everything harder, while supports make things easier. I think you underestimate how different regular school is. And a teacher is not a boss. Teachers are generally nicer, and it's their job to help you do well. And what exactly are the consequences if you don't do well at school? Is your family going to throw you out on the street? That is the consequences of losing a job, for many. Since you go to a special school of sorts, the environment is probably much more tolerant of personal differences. I'm now not talking about the kids, they're just kids, but the adults such as teachers, cleaning staff, other kids' parents. Are you aware of the havoc that Other Kids' Parents can cause in your life, if they decide you're a weirdo and their kids pick up on it?

A lot of autistics live in a bubble, because of the need for routine, and the limited social circle. Internet interaction is not the same, because on the Internet you can always decide to ignore someone. That' s not such a great option in real life.

Really, the misconceptions you have about life are similar to most teenagers, never mind autism. They don't understand the stakes of adult life, and they underestimate how much support they are receiving.

I think it's really great that you are communicating this way, Ezra. Just don't give up on pushing yourself to communicate, just a little bit, in real life.

And I think it's not clever to elevate a teenager to sage status, just because he's overcome some big issues. That's doing Ezra a disservice. We all need time to mature, and autistics more than most.

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