Men and Masking

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I thought better late than never:

Are you diagnosed / self-diagnosed, and at what age?

Self diagnosed last year at age 47

- Did you have difficulty finding a diagnostician as an adult?
Haven't tried to get diagnosed yet.
- Were you taken seriously by your GP, your family and friends, etc?
I've had several people tell me "you can't be autistic, you look people in the eyes." and things like that. I've realized I need to be careful who I mention it to. The autism thing is still quite new to me so I tend to want to talk about it though.


- If you weren't diagnosed in school, what challenges did you face trying to fit in?

I never fit in. I even felt out of place in the group of wierdos I would inevitably end up in. I learnt how to act from observing others and copying. I didn't consciously think about learning how to behave or bridge the gap between my weirdness and everyone else, I just subconsciously "absorbed" what I needed to survive.

- If you were diagnosed in school, or you went to special ed., how did that affect your social confidence?
N/A.
- How did your autistic traits affect your relationships or your self-concept?
I associated with others who were outsiders. Even with them I felt alone. At home Mum and dad (I now understand) were both autistic and in their own worlds. I felt quite detached from them. My self-concept never really developed. Copying people all the time made it feel as if I didn't exist. I had huge trouble making choices because I didn't know who was making the choice, and couldn't decide what my priorities were. Still an enormous issue.
- Did you feel pressure to hide your autistic traits? (sensory issues, special interests, etc)?
I didn't realize I had sensory issues. Have only realized this in recent years. I just tried to hide everything. There became a distinct difference between alone me and public me. This also relates to trauma though. Being traumatized caused me to hide myself. I think it also forced me to pretend not to have sensory issues. I wasn't allowed to have such issues.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your emotions or fake them?

Hiding was just second nature. It wasn't conscious.

- Did you play sports or get ridiculed if you didn't play sports? (male stereotyes?)

Didn't play sports and was ridiculed for it.

- Do you feel that society judged / will judge you for not conforming with NT boys / men?

Some of society will, yes.

- Do you feel like you wore a "mask" socially, or tried to fake it?

I masked without knowing it my entire life. Within certain groups of people I managed to develop some kind of social functioning. Mostly by copying.

- How does it feel knowing other autistic men are often branded as serial killers or psychos?

Sad. Add trauma to any human and you can make a monster. Autistic people are prone to be deeply effected by trauma. I can see though, how a loose connection to rules of all sorts (like I have) could easily land one in trouble.

- Did you ever feel like you'd be called an INCEL if you wanted to date or have sex?

Yes, though there was no name for it back then.

- Were you ever worried to tell a partner that you were autistic, or thought you were autistic?

No. Was never an issue as I didn't know. Even in recent years when I "thought I might be a little autistic" I really had no concept of what that means. I've always been very open with partners about stuff like that.

- Do you feel society / women have unfair expectations about your career or your income / skills?

My problem has always been that I appear very bright and manage to cope socially well enough that there are high expectations of me. As I now realize, I actually have some learning disabilities that have always hampered me. I have been totally unable to function in the world of money. I've changed jobs often due to the autism making working impossible from intense anxiety. I've never really owned anything. This has had an extremely negative effect on my self worth.

In relationships this has caused a fair bit of trouble. At the moment I am fortunate to be with a very supportive partner, so things are a bit better. But the tension this causes never goes away. I am going to look at getting a disability grant, but the red tape is daunting and I'm not sure I'll even get diagnosed with ASD.

- Is your mental health taken seriously, overall?

Yes
- Do you feel like autistic men's voices are heard in the media?

Not much.

I haven't forgotten about this thread. I was away for the weekend but I'll catch up and respond when I can.

Thanks for all the new posts.

- Are you diagnosed / self-diagnosed, and at what age?

Self-diagnosed at 12 years old; officially diagnosed at 56 years old (53 days ago).

- Did you have difficulty finding a diagnostician as an adult?

Yes and no. I found many diagnosticians. My requests for diagnostic testing for autism were regularly and routinely ridiculed prior to being refused.

- Were you taken seriously by your GP, your family and friends, etc?

When I told my mother I was on the spectrum at 12 years old I was struck with sufficient force to lose consciousness. I'm not certain if that's taking it serious or not, actually. I never considered mentioning it to family again until after I was diagnosed. I began to tell my father and once he saw where the conversation was heading he became so angry that I abandoned the idea. I was molested for years by my pediatrician which kept me from getting a GP as an adult until my late 40's; and I shared only what was vital - which did not include anything related to autism. I've never had a friend.

- If you weren't diagnosed in school, what challenges did you face trying to fit in?

Fitting in was not a challenge; it was an impossibility. I was bullied incessantly, both emotionally and physically, by both students and teachers. From first grade till high school, there was never a school day in which I was not physically hurt.

- If you were diagnosed in school, or you went to special ed., how did that affect your social confidence?

N/A

- How did your autistic traits affect your relationships or your self-concept?

I really have no way of knowing. In the same way that we wouldn't know light if there was no dark to contrast it with, this is the only self-concept I've ever had; I have no idea what it would have looked like if I hadn't been autistic. Likewise with relationships. I could speculate I suppose, but it would be a pure guess.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your autistic traits? (sensory issues, special interests, etc)?

Absolutely.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your emotions or fake them?

Again, absolutely.

- Did you play sports or get ridiculed if you didn't play sports? (male stereotyes?)

Yes, I played sports; I was required to.

- Do you feel that society judged / will judge you for not conforming with NT boys / men?

No & yes. Society has not judged me for not conforming because I always have. But they certainly shall as I continue to commit to not conforming for the sake of conforming.

- Do you feel like you wore a "mask" socially, or tried to fake it?

Yes, absolutely.

- How does it feel knowing other autistic men are often branded as serial killers or psychos?

Well, frankly, men in general are branded poorly. We're all misogynistic, violent, potential rapists don't you know? People are afraid of what they don't understand, neurodiversity is just another thing for people to fear.

- Did you ever feel like you'd be called an INCEL if you wanted to date or have sex?

Actually, I have never given this any thought but think that I'm inviting more derogatory judgment since I've concluded that I have no interest in either of those pursuits.

- Were you ever worried to tell a partner that you were autistic, or thought you were autistic?

No. I could say anything because really, since I mask so darn well and never took it down around my partner either, it didn't affect them.

- Do you feel society / women have unfair expectations about your career or your income / skills?

Sure. According to my grades and IQ, I could have been anything...then why haven't I? The expectation that I could have spent twenty, thirty, forty or more years in a work environment interacting with others is so incredibly impossible for me, yet it is expected. My life trajectory has been a disappointment to many people.

- Is your mental health taken seriously, overall?

It is by my therapist; that's all that matters to me.

- Do you feel like autistic men's voices are heard in the media?

I don't know; I don't watch the media.

- Are you diagnosed / self-diagnosed, and at what age?
Diagnosed at age 52

- Did you have difficulty finding a diagnostician as an adult?
Yes and no, it was complicated and time consuming to do it via the ordinary health care system, so I gave up.
Then I was recommended a private practitioner and paid up, and that was straight forward and easy.

- Were you taken seriously by your GP, your family and friends, etc?
I feel that my GP really doesn't know much about autism.
My family either don't really believe in autism or regards it akin to eg being left handed.

- If you weren't diagnosed in school, what challenges did you face trying to fit in?
I was and wasn't trying to fit in. I've always been stubborn and try to not give in for preassure, sometimes even over doing it.
But I faked interests my peers had, which got me in trouble since I didn't know enough and was caught as a fake.

- If you were diagnosed in school, or you went to special ed., how did that affect your social confidence?
I had some special ed classes at age 8-9, for reading/writing. It didn't affect me.

- How did your autistic traits affect your relationships or your self-concept?
Always had low self esteem, struggled to keep a relationship going for longer than a year. But hard to tell if it's because of autism.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your autistic traits? (sensory issues, special interests, etc)?
Well, I felt pressure to "be normal".

- Did you feel pressure to hide your emotions or fake them?
I felt pressure to show (more) emotions.

- Did you play sports or get ridiculed if you didn't play sports? (male stereotyes?)
I was strong and fast, but terrible at team sports. A bit of riducule/bullying for sure, but nothing major.

- Do you feel that society judged / will judge you for not conforming with NT boys / men?
Maybe, but there is also a bit of respect that comes from standing up for yourself and going against the stream.

- Do you feel like you wore a "mask" socially, or tried to fake it?
For sure.

- How does it feel knowing other autistic men are often branded as serial killers or psychos?
I didn't know that, but that's terrifying.

- Did you ever feel like you'd be called an INCEL if you wanted to date or have sex?
No.

- Were you ever worried to tell a partner that you were autistic, or thought you were autistic?
I haven't had any relationships since I started suspecting autism, but I doubt I'd worry about telling.

- Do you feel society / women have unfair expectations about your career or your income / skills?
I don't really know, but I don't think so.

- Is your mental health taken seriously, overall?
I don't think so.

- Do you feel like autistic men's voices are heard in the media?
Not more or less than autistic women.

/Mats

I wish I could miss "being a child"----but I just don't. My childhood wasn't all that happy, though it wasn't all that sad, either.

A lot of questions.

But they dont quite fit my life experiences. But they dont quite not fit either.

My parents sent me to shrinks since I was in early grade school when JFK was POTUS, but I wasnt officially diagnosed with aspergers until around 2015, when I was around 60.

But even around ten I remember hearing a radio show about the then newly discovered thing called "autism". A panel of doctors and parents talking about autistic kids. And I remember thinking that "I am not as severe as these kids labeled autistic but I have things in common with them, and that maybe there is a mild version of autism, and that maybe I have it". But then I dismissed the idea. But decades later both of those things were proven right. Science caught up with my ten year old self.

That takes care of the first four questions.

you're interesting in "masking". Masking that I had autism. For most of my life I didnt know that I had autism, nor even suspect it until a few years ago. So I would mask having numerous seemingly unrelated "things that are odd about me" without knowing that those desperate things were all under the same rubrick. Being diagnosed showed how all of those things were really one thing.

"Hiding emotions" wasnt really an issue. If anything I was always accused of lacking emotion.

I always sucked at sports.

Actually "serial killers" are NOT associated with autism. Its mass murderers who are associated with autism. Not the same thing. If you kill 20 people one at a time over a period of five years (and you take pleasure in slowly torturing each one) you are a serial killer. If you mow down 20 people all at once with a car, or with a gun, you are a "spree killer", or "mass murderer". The motivations for the two crimes are usually quite different.

The Ted Bundies, and Jack the Rippers of the world do not generally have autistic traits. Its the guys who whip out an AR15 and mow down dozens of folks at once in their school or office, or in the Mall who turn out to have autistic traits.

And -yes it does effect me emotionally that that sort of thing is associated with autism. And for that very reason it irks me to see folks on an autistic website advocate for leniency for autistic killers. To my mind such leniency would just add to the stigma of autism by reinforcing the stereotype. But thats just my emotional prejudice. That we should be held to the same moral standards as others. Other autistics seem to disagree.

Thats enough questions for now. Whew!

- Are you diagnosed / self-diagnosed, and at what age?

14. Aspergers.

- Did you have difficulty finding a diagnostician as an adult?

I'm pretty much a stranger to doctors.

- Were you taken seriously by your GP, your family and friends, etc?

No my family downplayed it, partially disbelieved it. did not understand it.

- If you weren't diagnosed in school, what challenges did you face trying to fit in?

I fit in ok at school. But as i got older i tended to drift apart from mainstream values and culture. I realized I really AM different and I really AM autistic and no amount of fitting in was going to bring me any kind of peace of mind.

- If you were diagnosed in school, or you went to special ed., how did that affect your social confidence?

I was always bright academically. Diagnosis definitely did something to my sense of self.

- How did your autistic traits affect your relationships or your self-concept?

Autistic traits make me extremely guarded about who or what i let into my life. I present myself amorphously.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your autistic traits? (sensory issues, special interests, etc)?

I always act normal the best of my ability, i never reveal. I doubt anybody can guess, maybe the think im sightly weird, but i think my brain was socialized well enough as a child, no one ever suspected until i was a teen, i think that helped me able to 'blend in' in any setting. My sensory issues are mild, and my ability to read people is fairly good. I can be a quick talker and like to convesate with people , read them, calibrate a artful response, i dont think i have any issue reading facial language, body language , 'emotions in the eyes,' there i test as good, if not better than NT. But special interests do take over my life though, thats where there is no mistake i am on the spectrum.

- Did you feel pressure to hide your emotions or fake them?

Around strangers, yes. i can stonefaced to the point people double take, as if im trying to intimidate them or stare them down or something. Im neutral flat affect, easy going , as default. but round people i'm close to i can be highly animated. I keep my emotions to myself generally.

- Did you play sports or get ridiculed if you didn't play sports? (male stereotyes?)

Yeah i played sports. I fit in, i enjoyed sports in my youth. And could still play sports if i wanted to, if i didnt think it was a waste of time.

- Do you feel that society judged / will judge you for not conforming with NT boys / men?

I always had a stubborn minded insistence on doing what i wanted at the time, no matter the consequences. Wether it be a group activity or a lone pursuit.

- Do you feel like you wore a "mask" socially, or tried to fake it?

Ive never tried to Mask, Ive always been just acted how i feel. Regardless of the impression it may have made, good or bad.

- How does it feel knowing other autistic men are often branded as serial killers or psychos?

I laugh it off.

- Did you ever feel like you'd be called an INCEL if you wanted to date or have sex?

Thats a subculture of very bitter and angry guys. That doesnt even come into the equation in my mind.

- Were you ever worried to tell a partner that you were autistic, or thought you were autistic?

Need to know basis. I dont tell anybody unless i think it necessary for them to know, or to my advantage even. I'm certainly not broadcasting it about.

- Do you feel society / women have unfair expectations about your career or your income / skills?

I dont know what society expects. People are maybe surprised im so smart and normal, i guess they expect rain man. then they say things like "oh i guess it effects people in different ways". Almost like they don't believe me.

- Is your mental health taken seriously, overall?

When your High functioning, your ina weird grey zone, where you seem capable enough to help yourself. But really on the inside you still f'd up, yet nobody can really tell, cause i keep a lid on it, and i can put on a nice facade of polite agreeableness.

- Do you feel like autistic men's voices are heard in the media?

Only if its Bill gates , Elon Musk or some other silicon valley guy or successful 'eccentric' who made it.

I know many people in the Autism spectrum and find that women in the spectrum are much more noticeable than men, which debunks the socialisation theory. Most women I know present quite masculine and most men I know present quite feminine, the masculine / aspie-ness presentation draws my attention far more than the feminine / aspie-ness in men.

With respect to masking. My experience has been that adapted skills born in adversity at an early age will result in a more refined compensationary self and masking.

Also, those who are more right brain dominant have superior masking skills, this is an area that has been grossly overlooked. A good example here is Donna Williams, she presents (or more to the point her "presentations" - she had DID) very fluid and very "un- wooden" compared to her left brain dominant counterpart, Temple Grandin.

As a rule, we don't see things as they are; we see things as we are. Such subjective way of perceiving makes life all the more interesting, if not baffling and perplexing at times.

My experience of being a man and masking is that without concealing my natural autistic ways as a child, I would have been even more humiliated and mocked by my "caregivers" and children at school.

Post Dx support for me was invaluable in helping me better understand my psychological defences, and to begin to move beyond mere survival and into living more deeply and authentically. Not I hasten to add that survival has anything inauthentic about it.