More: No link whatsoever between vaccines and autism

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If you are going to get your information from a conspiracy theorist sites, I'm really not interested in discussing what you have found. You realize that the ticks that carry Lyme don't live just anywhere don't you? If Lyme was causing autism, wouldn't there be higher rates of autism in those areas?? Ooooh. Cue the Twighlight Zone music.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... /lyme.html

And spare me the conspiracy garbage and cheesy insults about quackwatch. Thanks.

There is like ZERO reason to link autism to Lyme. But quacks love Lyme and they pin all kinds of symptoms on it and then start selling their cures. If the quacks want to push it as the new mercury they need to show how it is that Lyme can make a fetus autistic. Or is it that a 50 year old man can get bit by a tick carrying Lyme and suddenly regress into autism?

Please refrain from posting dishonest information.

The information I posted on correctly diagnosing Lyme disease has nothing whatsoever to do with autism. It is based on a position paper from the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society that is based on the results of 25 scientific studies. ILADS is not a quack site. From their site, "ILADS is a nonprofit, international, multidisciplinary medical society, dedicated to the diagnosis and appropriate treatment of Lyme and its associated diseases." Here's the link to their paper on correctly diagnosing Lyme: http://www.ilads.org/cdc_paper.html

The autism-Lyme connection I mentioned in an earlier post simply stated that mother's with Lyme had autistic children and when tested they were positive for Lyme. I referred to an article which stated Lyme may cause autistic symptoms since it primarily causes neurological symptoms in children.

Why can't I post scientific peer-reviewed studies without being labeled a quack, conspiracy theorist, etc. by someone who is convinced they are all knowing?

Diva, the title of your post really isn't accurate. The meta-analysis only looked at the variable of thimerosal as a risk factor for autism and found no link. But it is too soon to say that there are no effects from vaccinations in general. Only the thimersosal.

The viral immunizations use weakened viruses to innoculate and it is documented that these can trigger things such as autoimmune conditions.

I for one do not believe that anything having to do with a vaccination CAUSES autism. But there is strong evidence that the immune system may be involved in the conditions somehow, so that something like a vaccine may just throw another variable into the autism mix.

Hopefully there is no effects from any part of any vaccination which may play a role in autism. However, it is still too soon to say and more research is needed.

Diva, the problem with Quackwatch is that it sets out from one position - that alternative medicine in all its forms is 'quackery', and 'conventional' medicine is safe - which automatically lends itself to the kind of arrogant bias you should be seeking to avoid. Sites like these seek to discredit all forms of medicine that aren't 'conventional', and look for evidence to back that position up. That fact is not all alternative medicine is 'bad', 'dangerous', or 'wrong' - some is, yes, and there are always those out there seeking to make a profit by selling false products and false hopes, but you get that in every profession (yes, including 'conventional' medicine) - but for the most part if you go to a well-known practitioner of a well-known 'alternative' medical regime, for example osteopathy or homoeopathy - who belongs to a vetted and regulated professional body, then you're going to be safe. Open your mind a bit, you may learn something...

I'd agree with that. Not that it surprises me, the US is home to big pharma... (closely followed by the UK, mind, but supportive environments are the preferred thing here in the UK. I'm from NZ so I know the system there well too). I also think the people from the US seem to be far less open-minded towards alternative systems of medicine than the UK/AU/NZ ones too, possibly with good reason from what I've heard from people on here.

Creationists use the same argument when trying to remove evolution from the science curriculum

It's hard to be "open-minded" to New Age crap.

Perhaps it's a valid argument then?

(Not that I'm a creationist, strictly speaking).

Well, obviously God knows more than scientists.

See, where I'm from it ISN'T 'New Age' crap at all. Certainly not in NZ, Aus, UK, Europe... New Age crap would be travellers who live in caravans, wear purple velvet, stare into crystals and tea-leaves 'telling fortunes' for 10quid while going on about wicca and fairies and star children while they make candles and smoke weed.

If you vax all the kids you give the herd some herd immunity. The "herd" then becomes an unfriendly place for rubella to live. It dies out. Women who are pregnant then don't ever run into little kids with live rubella infections. Then the pregnant women don't give birth to babies with serious problems or lose their babies to miscarriage. It works the same in herds of cattle or groups of whatever one can vaccinate. You can make a germ go extinct (like they did with smallpox by vaccinating enough people for it.

So your statement:
I wonder if it has to do with the first case of Lyme being diagnosed just a few miles from the docks to a federal research lab called Plum Island that some allege was studying tick-born disease at the time?

Isn't conspiracy wing-nuttery? 'Cause, I thought it was.

There's no reason to think that a Lyme infection in a mom would cause autism. And you can believe that the quacks won't promote this unless they can write a big pharma prescription for the kid (to undo damage done by a spirochete or autoimmune cells while the kid was inside his mom?) Quacks make money by prescribing what no one else will because it's foolish to prescribe it like Geiers and Lupron, or they make money by themselves selling water purifiers and mHBOT balloons or far infrared saunas to their patients.

There is no relationship between Lyme and autism as shown by local outbreaks of autism following local outbreaks of Lyme, not to my knowledge there isn't. Feel free to show me if you know where this data is.

Being vaccinated doesn't mean you won't get something. There was a plague of rubella around my school when I was younger and 90% of teachers and students had it, myself included, and I'd say there were maybe 3 people who weren't vaccinated in the school.

(I'm vaxed for the record).

You aren't just posting peer reviewed papers. You are mixing them in with non peer reviewed trash. Also, not all peer reviewed papers are equally valid. Some are pushed through the peer review process by their cronies as is obvious in the case of some of the Geier papers. It's worse when you have papers in "skin diseases quarterly" about autism and mercury, there are some weird things like that that the quacks have managed to get published by their buddies. Like the papers don't even fit in the topic of some of these bottom tier journals. You have to read the papers and understand, them too. Like the Geiers had this paper that said autism was falling off in California a few years ago, when it was doing nothing of the sort. It was climbing. They lied. It was a really stupid lie because you can see really plainly from the data that they were using that it was a bald faced lie.

You need to stop repeating junk if you want credibility, in my opinion. I'm not telling you what to post, just that what you post lacks understanding of the science and hence lacks credibility.

Your are right, I should have specified that the finding was about thimerosal in vaccines.

There's no evidence anywhere to show that any vaccine at any time has ever caused autism. Can they cause other problems? Yes, but there is actual evidence of these reactions, etc.

It's not just made up stuff as it is in the vaccine autism thing. And it's made up because lawyers who want to sue vaccine manufacturers are making stuff up. The same thing happened with the breast implant scare. Lawyers raked in cash by suing the manufacturer of silicone breast implants. The implants didn't do any bad thing to the immune systems of ANY women as it turns out, but Dow paid out a gajillion bucks for things they didn't cause. Now, Dow probably has done lots of bad things, no doubt, and not been punished for them, but they didn't cause autoimmune probs in anyone with silicone breast implants. It was a lie, and they had scummy scientists publishing papers and making big bucks testifying that implants were bad. One of those scummy scientists works at UCD in liver disease and allergy. He tried to cash in on autism, too, but backed out when he was discovered playing pattycake with Geier and helping Geier to publish garbage about autism in a bottom tier journal that the scummy scientist was a co-editor of.

There is no reason at all to suspect vaccines as a cause of autism. You need an actual mechanism by which it happens and there is NONE. Go read the Omnibus transcripts or listen to the audio if you want to see/hear the real arguments made by the sharks and the "oh so brave yet devastated" parents of "vaccine damaged" kids. It's garbage. It's worthless. These jerk lawyers have had years to make a case and they have nothing.

If you do you can hear Tom Powers whining about how mean the bloggers were to them. **sniff**