After trying to change, I know now people with AS can't

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I agree that accepting ourselves as we are is crucial. You could argue that believing I MUST CHANGE is quite a negative viewpoint as it assumes your are faulty and need correcting.



Same here. I moved all over the country from inner city bedsits, to seaside towns, to hippy communes and more. A friend once pointed out the problem of such travelling: "you can never escape from yourself". It was not easy for someone so socially awkward. Now I would say I was looking for a niche. Eventually I found a place where many misfits had drifted and had 2 of the most amazing fun, social years of my life. Eventually decided to head back to civilisation, totally convinced I now had no social difficulties at all. It was a HUGE shock to find that I just couldn't make any friends at all in the new city.

"What changed?". I really thought it was me, but it was more the environment. Obviously we do change but so much is dependant on environment and reactions of others.

Same thing happens at work. Do really well at one company, then another, making friends, becoming popular. Surely now I've conquered the curse? Only to find at the next company I'm a total pariah being regularly scapegoated and ignored etc for no apparent reason other than I just don't fit in.

To me - and this may change as change is inevitable - the key appears to be carefully selecting the situations and people you interract with. Quickly spotting the signs of those who will never accept you and get out ASAP. If I have any advice for KenM, who's difficult experience started this thread, that would be it.

You can change.

You can work on yourself.

I had 0 social abilities and 0 empathy a few years ago. I had to work hard to climb the "social ladder" but I sort of did it.

I have a great job, not so much friends (but then I don't really care).

I can maintain a conversation and can show a bit of empathy, even though it's tough and don't care most of the time but I make an effort.

It is hard work and not really pleasant sometimes.

Weren't you tempted to go back to the place with the misfits?

You can glue as many feathers as you want to yourself; quack all day long; paddle in the water all day long; flap your arms, etcetera, and you're still no closer to being a duck than a human who doesn't try.

You can change if there's something there that can be changed, and with the newest evidence concerning ASDs and genetics (i.e., genes turning themselves on, whilst others don't), once you're past a certain age of development, you have nothing else to work on other than what you have.

...yet I try to be proud of the things I'm good at, KenM, rather than dwelling on things I can't do, like be comfortable in social situations. I'm one of those people
who can repair just about anything, yet I won't hang around afterwards for coffee and chitchat. I do know the rules of politeness, so when I see someone I know,
I can make a little small talk (very little), but I feel like I'm acting, and after a few minutes, the other person must notice my awkward, rigid body language that
denotes discomfort: I'd rather be at home installing software or taking something apart.

When I was growing up, I had friends due to circumstances such as knowing them from school, and as they grew up, they had relationships, they got
married, they had kids, but my life never changed. I have accepted the fact that love will probably never be mutual for me, as I cannot form deep
bonds with people. And I don't always care enough to be supportive of others, but I do what I can, and let others just assume that I'm too busy to keep
in touch.

Just lately I've been severing those old habitual friendships-due-to-circumstances, if I'd logically concluded that the person and I really didn't have
anything in common. I don't really get lonely, and I don't understand the 'average' person's craving to be with other people at all times, or if they can't
be in physical proximity with someone, to stay in touch via cellphone.

Oh, and I agreed with Ningyou: "And again, you're just making excuses. Your god doesn't exist. If you keep looking to it for help you'll find that that help is
never coming. You have to help yourself. If you keep blaming it for everything then you're never going to take responsibility for your own life."

funny, me too

I've accepted it. But it makes me miserable to think about. I don't want to be alone and i've tryed everything to change. Nothings left.

YOU are the only one capable of helping yourself regardless of religions and beliefs

What did you try, and how did you try it? Let's get into this.

KenM, the problem is not that people don't accept you. It's that you don't accept yourself. You're looking for others to validate your worth as a human being, even though you've proved that just by surviving this long in such a f-ed up world. Most NTs wouldn't be able to cope with the crap you've had thrown at you for 40 years much less someone with a neurological condition that makes the simplest things epically challenging.

There will always be people who reject you. Heck, people reject others over the stupidest things; being the wrong religion, wrong race, weight, you name it. Heck, I was riding the bus today and when we passed by this guy on the street who was probably transexual, these two other passengers couldn't wait until they opened their big mouths and discuss how "disgusting" and "evil" he was and talking about the "good ole" days when gays didn't dare declare their sexuality out in the open. I wanted to throttle both of their ignorant a$$es. But not wanting to risk arrest, I just gave them a really dirty look.

NTs reject us Aspies because they can't, for the life of them, imagine any other way of being except their's. If you deviate in the slightest from what's "supposed" to be, according to them, you either need to make it your duty to change or do everyone else a favor and get away from polite society. You might be catchy and surely you wouldn't want to risk some poor NT's well being by exposing him to your AS cooties. [/snark]

In other words, KenM, you are not the one that's broken. It's society's attitude that needs major repair. Yeah, I was where you are now a few years back after years of frustration and wondering why I couldn't be like everyone else. Spent a couple of weeks in a mental hospital after a suicide attempt, even. After finding out why I was different, I realized if I wanted to be happy, I had to find my own way of being and not rely on what society said I had to be. It also meant loving myself for who I am at this very moment, not what people wished I could be if I only "tried hard enough".

It may mean I won't have too many friends or make six figures since socializing and corporate jobs stress me out. It may mean I'll never have the house in the suburbs, husband, 2.5 kids...and a dog everyone's running over each other to get. But at least my life would be mine, not some bastardized clone of what society says it's supposed to be.

Everyone can change. It's part of their frickin' biology. Don't give up. It's how I changed myself.

I think it's low self esteem KenM is suffering from. When people have low self esteem, they feel bad about themselves so it makes it harder for them to change and go out and do things.
This is what is all sounds like to me by KenM when he talks like this.

People can change. You can't change everything though. It's better to focus on what you can change and to set aside those things you can't change rather than worry about them. I'm still learning about this, but I am farther a long than I was years back. Have I learned to change my awkward behavior? Not really. When I am aware of my behavior I can hold back on certain things to an extent, but I know it's still there and as soon as I stop paying attention it will be present and accounted for as usual.

One thing I did learn from watching programs on TV about the very subject was body language and facial expressions. It seems not all NTs are completely aware of this stuff either. But now I recognize a lot of the things that before I was completely unaware of. I've also overcome a lot of the anxiety that I used to suffer from. It used to be so bad that I couldn't leave the house. Now I can go out almost any time without difficulty. Though lately I've been under stress and social encounters have been rather nervewracking.

I did say it was possible to change because I've expereinced it myself. I didn't myself say what could be changed, though others here have (right or wrong, I don't know). So change is possible. It's not just a concept, it does exist. Even this late in your life it is still possible to change. It up to everyone here to decide for themselves if the effort they would be putting into change would be worth it. It's up to everyone here to decide what they want to change, and understand that some change might not be possible.

Changing yourself to fit in isn't worth it in my opinion. Changing behaviors that isolate you might be worth looking at. I've known people who have a tendany to ruin freindships and the possibilities of friendships because they have a tendancy to step on people's toes, to ingore other people's boundries and to show disrespect to others. People have a tendacy to confuse assertiveness for either aggression or passivity. I don't think that learning to respect other people's boundries is changing who you are, but changing how you express yourself in this world in a way that doesn't cause needless conflict. At the same time you want to make sure that you express yourself in a way that makes sure that people respect your boundries as well. It's about balance.

Anyway, there is an answer for you out there somewhere. Whether you want to persue that is up to you.

Also, you can't stop other people from suffering. The fact that we live means that there will be pain. Isn't it better for people to learn better ways at coping with the pain that will come rather than run from the pain that will find them regardless?