Palin and Autism

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Zeno, where are you getting this sh*t? What I said was that IF you had gotten better information earlier -- like, hey, working in a corporate environment may not be a good choice for you (as it is not a good choice for MANY people) -- then life might be working a whole lot better.

I'm not blaming you or calling you lazy. I get it, I get how hard it is. But I also know a whole lot of Aspies, some pretty low functioning, where you clearly are not, who have lives that work. It is possible, you know?

Yes, I feel I have a lot in common with Downs people, much more so than ADD, Bipolar, or any 'mental illness'. I'm just a more sophisticated Downie who looks normal. Developmental is the key word I spose.

What do you mean by "lives that work." The conundrum of autism is that the less functional and more obviously autistic individuals are the ones who are most likely to secure steady employment and be given dollops of help to lead independent lives. Read this message board. The rest of us tend to get fired in ways that are cruel and dehumanizing. There are lots of very intelligent people on this board who have been so traumatized by their experience of trying to hold on to a job that they just give up. How many times can people crush you before you get crushed?

Your optimism offends me because you sound like the many parents of autistic children who cannot stop pushing their kid to overcome autism. Do this and do that, don't worry hunny, I get it, it's hard but we must have a positive attitude and keep on trying. It is like asking a Down syndrome child to go learn mathematical logic because if he can do that, then he would have licked the problem. Except that you do not even realize what you are forcing on others.

Look, Zeno can pontificate about the American elections because he doesn't have to live in the situation he espouses. He hangs out in Singapore (where no dissension from the norm what so ever.) It is sorta lord like how he can suggest us peons to have to live with the political party and government he espouses.

George Bush was a disaster, not only for the country, but for the Republican Party. John
McCain is stooping to the gutter to pickup the crown left there by the Bush administration. He vilified Obama for being a celebrity, and now uses a celebrity named Karl Rove to decide that celebrity sells. Rush Limbaugh has been pushing Sarah Palin all summer because let's face it, the Republican base are not thrilled with McCain. So now, what is left of the Republican party has their own celebrity (that they made of her, remember) they at least have the chance of unifying the remnants of the Republicans.

but winning the general presidential election? hardly. they don't even trust her on the Sunday morning interview shows (Meet the Press, etc.) What made me laugh the hardest was when all these staunch Republican old men were indignant at the double standard about women, like they just noticed it was happening. . .

Merle

Thanks Merle for getting that off my shoulders!! !! !! !!

This one has been bugging me, jeesh!! !

Nifty. I am unapologetically optimistic. But instead of blowing sunshine up people's asses, I work my own off trying to make a difference. And I do, so there you go.

I AM reading this board -- I read a post last night with the Subject How Successful can an AS Be?, about how self-pity was a complete waste of time and counterproductive. Written, of course, by Aspies.

Apparently you haven't read that post.

Meanwhile, back on topic:

Palin has done nothing in her home state to increase funding for special ed or services for the disabled. In fact, she has cut funding. Her recent about-face is a politcal ploy, and nothing more than a sound bite. She has NOT been there -- YET.

And, because she is far wealthier than the vast majority of families who raise special needs kids, she will never face the desperation, humiliation, and frustration that the rest of us parents face when trying to secure services for our children.

She will never have to decide if the family gets to take a vacation this year or sends Billy to an enrichment camp.

She will never have to search for respite care so that she can try to go back to school to finish her degree so she can support her family.

She will never have to fight with the school district, threatening to sue them, because they won't hire an aide for her son just so that he can make it through the school day.

So, Zeno, who has the misplaced optimism? Isn't it foolhardy to think that a pretty woman with more ego and money than smarts or heart is somehow going to change the lot of millions of Americans just because she gave birth to a DS child. By that logic, having Dick Cheney as VP would have secured the basic human rights allowing Gays and Lesbians around the country to marry just because he has a lesbian daughter. And did you know that this new VP candidate attends a church which tries to 'convert' homosexuals through prayer and deprogramming?

What the hell would she do with a roomful of Aspies, do you think? Dear god, we'd be back to lobotomies!

Awesome points!! ! Thanks janjt also for the work you're doing!! !

If American politics wasn't foisted on us thru the media I wouldn't comment, but since it is, I will.

It is the distance that helps me see more clearly. The war in Iraq is perhaps one the most important military engagements ever fought by the United States. We are all told that the story about American success is also the story of innovation; but what they do not tell you is that it is about innovating around oil. The automobile, airplanes, ships, plastics, modern agriculture and so on are all possible only because of oil. Almost everything else follows from these inventions. The computer would not have been possible if plastics had not been invented. Would it have been possible to put up telephone wires without the materials derived from oil or the transportation from oil powered vehicles? To give up such a precious resource in the name of misunderstood peace is willful and irresponsible. From what he has said, Senator Obama appears to understand this argument. But in his quest for power, he has chosen to brush aside good sense and reason to pander to the crowd. He is a man who has gotten very used to saying what people want to hear. In this sense, Senator Obama likes to deliver. Elevating Senator Obama to the Presidency is much more dangerous than most Americans realize.

In case there is any misunderstanding, I am not in love with Sarah Palin nor am I enamored with John McCain. I just think that they will win and have stated my reasons for believing so. Look at the reaction that Governor Palin has inspired in the rank and file of the conservative right. Senator McCain has always held center (or right of center in case anyone finds the centrist label as applied to Senator McCain contentious) and he does this not so much as a way to win votes, but because he is acting out of his core beliefs. Examine John McCain and Sarah Palin and you will find that they actually disagree widely and wildly on many things: abortion, environmental protection, creationism versus evolution and so on. The two do not overlap all that much. But it is the ground that their combination garners that makes victory so assured. Add McCain-Palin together, right plus center, and you will have a ticket that appeals to many more voters than the left plus left ticket which Obama-Biden stands for.

So what if Sarah Palin as Governor of Alaska did little for the parents of children with congenital disorders. What is important is that she will have direct experience of raising a child with Down syndrome and her views on this topic will be both very personal and relevant. Even in the unlikely event that McCain-Palin loses, Sarah Palin will become one of the most important politicians in the country. Her views on congenital disorders will count, they might very well be definitive.

Zeno, I do realize that I live in liberal California, but I do think that being far afield has caused you to be a bit out of touch with the day-to-day realities of life stateside.

Yes, the war is around oil. I don't think there is a sentient being in the US who would deny that. The ironic part of the story is that because gas has finally gotten as expensive here as it has always been in Europe, we stupid Americans are rethinking our love affairs with gas-guzzling cars. Hence, hybrids are taking off, cities and states are going green, power companies are urging us to use CFLs.

BUT -- there are real crises here, with health insurance, public education, financial institutions -- that simply have not been addressed by the GOP. The GOP stands, in my opinion, for 'The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Poorer'. Certainly, under Bush-Cheney-Halliburton-Enron, that is EXACTLY what has happened. While I like and admire McCain, he is under ENORMOUS pressure from the GOP to continue the status quo.

Don't believe me? His first pick was Joe Lieberman, an Independent, and the GOP refused to let him go with his OWN choice. So, he picked Palin, who is a darling of moral minority, and thoroughly reviled by those who know her. Centrist Republicans are groaning, and watching all of the ground they have tried to gain over the last few years lost over a cat fight in its own party.

McCain picking Palin is akin to Obama picking Al Sharpton. It will come back to bite him -- and the party -- in the end. Just watch. Us Dems couldn't be happier.

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, although I have disclosed that the first candidate I was attracted to was John Edwards, but I quickly learned that his economic agenda and resolve to withdraw the troops from Iraq were not going to be feasible. There are real problems in the United States as there are problems anywhere. None of the problems facing the nation have easy solutions. Things are as they are because of numerous countervailing forces and conflicting demands that have come together to produce what everyone agrees is a less than optimal outcome. But to foster any real change requires more than just talk. There is nothing wrong with pamphlets and placards, but how far can anyone really go in effecting change just by being all fired up and righteous? All the interested parties have to be dealt with and when that is done, more often than not, you will find that you have not moved one sorry inch from where you first started.

A debate on the Bush tax cuts is out of the scope of this discussion. But I think it must be said that there is no country that can afford to ignore the needs of its business community. Certainly here in Singapore where we have no natural resources and from the very beginning the raison d'être of our existence was to serve the needs and harness the powers of globalization, there is a very natural inclination to be business friendly. No community can ever get rich by beating up on its businesses. The United States is no different. Whether you agree with the Bush administration’s policies is another matter altogether.

What I find most interesting in Palin's candidacy is her desire to act as advocate for congenital disorders. There have already been fiery exchanges on this thread on just how independent an autistic individual can be. Some would say that because I can write so well and speak with such eloquence, there is no reason why I should not live an independent life. All I need to do is to try hard enough. But not only have I tried, I have tried very hard. Only to be cast back time and again back onto the pit of humiliation as I am rejected in the most fundamental way by people whose opinions had the power to make or break my would be career.

The Republicans are not known to be willing to provide support for people because they think that such welfare benefits corrupts a man's willingness to work. But is it really fair to ask people with congenital disorders to work conventionally for a living? And in the case of people with Asperger syndrome where we are so obviously gifted in often astounding ways, for us not to apply those talents in any productive venture just seem too much. But look at us: most are unemployed and unemployable. Some would apply a psychological defense and claim that they despise work, others are too heartbroken to try again, but all of us recognize that this is a problem. I would like to know the conclusions that Sarah Palin eventually arrives at in her journey with Down syndrome. What place, if any, do people with congenital disorders have in society?

It's hard for me to find any kind of hope or admiration for any sort of modern candidate with the sole exception of Ron Paul's failed campaign. He was pretty much doomed from the start because of the role that the US media machine plays in elections, much like how fear and emotions govern the will of the people more than logic and rational thought.

Jefferson seems to have been reasonably decent based upon what I've read. Lincoln was ok but essentially destroyed states rights based on my limited understanding of the situations. You'll have to pardon me for being a college dropout and not intimately familiar with American history and political science.

I tend to agree much more with Bill Hicks than I do with any politician for the past 100-150 years.

Zeno, the question should be -- what place in society do you WANT to have?

I think part of the problem is that ASDs are truly a spectrum issue -- both in type and severity, if you will. There are plenty of Aspies who succeed in the mainstream. And there are plenty who do not. But, many people don't want to be part of 'that' society, and that's okay, too. There are separatists in every sub-group in the mainstream population, be they deaf, lesbians, or Mormons. But that leaves two other options, namely assimilation and acculturation: assimilation becoming 'one with the Borg', and acculturation being faithful to one's own sense of self and personal culture while adopting some of the mainstream cultural aspects as well so as to be able to participate in mainstream society.

If you are talking about how you as an ASD individual can contribute to the world at large (which is what vocation is generally about), I'd argue that in some way you already are. For example, by posting here, and making people like me think. But I sense that that isn't enough for you, am I correct?

If so, again I ask -- what do you want to do? What place do YOU want to have? It's different for every human being, regardless of a 'disorder' or a 'diagnosis' or a 'syndrome'. And this is where I think there is a huge chasm between Down Syndrome and Asperger's, by the way.

A majority of Down Syndrome folks do not have the cognitive ability to understand the extent to which they are not able to participate fully in mainstream society. Therefore, one could reasonably argue that they do not suffer as much emotional pain as those who DO have that cognitive ability.

In other words, people with an ASD suffer FAR greater pain, emotionally, because by and large you understand very keenly how you 'don't fit in'. But again, HOW you want to fit in is the key question.

Sure, exterminating people by the thousands so we can keep running our cars sounds good, as long as it's nobody we care about. I'm sure glad no one is thinking about bringing the war over here. (All those shiny new Halliburton concentration camps are just for immigrants -- really.) And remember that we need to protect our freedom. Don't ya just love to hear a politician swear on a stack of bibles to uphold the constitution?

janjt, you do not ever have to worry about my place in society. We all know your rhetoric well and most of us on this board have heard the same things drummed into us by people with the best intentions. And almost all of us have taken such advice to heart and given it our best shot at assimilating and acculturating to the world. Believe or not, many of us are mature enough to understand that it is we who have to adapt to the needs of this world and not the other way around. Why then are the vast majority of us unemployed? The stories that are told by the members of this board about how they got fired are horrifying. It is usually done so as to extract maximum pain and impose the highest penalty of humiliation and social ostracism. The common reaction that people with Asperger syndrome encounter is that of vituperative hatred, for which we know not why. We do not just get picked on, the bullying is often socially sanctioned and everyone is in on it. When complaints get filed, the broad consensus is that we are to blame.

There are those who think that the alarmingly high incidence of suicide in the autism community is the result of low self-esteem. While a poor sense of self is certainly a factor, perhaps the biggest reason by far is people reach the end of their financial rope and choose death over more misery. When you get fired with cause and there are no references to which you can point to for future job opportunities, what kind of work can you do? Even a minimum wage job at Walmart would require some kind of reference. Assuming that we get hired for that minimum wage job, the likelihood is that despite the willingness to accept a position far below our cognitive abilities, the same pattern of getting picked on and pushing back inappropriately will eventually result in yet another termination.

You say you get it janjt, but the truth is you do not. The subtext that runs through your irresponsible demagoguery is that people with autism are responsible for their autism because we have a choice. What I am telling you is that we have no choice. You are just another wishful parent who wants to believe that with positive thinking and perhaps mercury chelation, autism can be overcome. It ain't that simple hunny.

Zeno, I'm not going to argue with you. I don't blame you for your autism, nor do I blame you for the vitriol you feel. But I do believe you have choices other than anger. I also don't believe that everyone with AS is destined for a life of misery, depression, and rejection. I know it isn't true, because I see these folks every week in my office. The problem is that the systems in place to help ASD individuals and their families are horribly lacking.

But again, the topic was Palin...

Check out http://www.autismactionnetwork.org/ and follow the link to Obama's and Biden's response to how these candidates will support autistic individuals and their families. McCain and Palin have not responded yet, but the site promises to load their answers as soon as they come in.