Revisiting Empathy in Asperger Syndrome

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I'm a great listener. I only hear the information though, not the "emotion" that people are trying to convey in whatever ways they are supposed to do it. I can sometimes relate, if I've been in that situation myself, and the emotion I feel can sometimes be overwhelming. but if it doesn't relate in any way to me, I can't "feel" their emotion.

that doesn't mean that I don't care though.

I like the lack of empathy on this forum. at least I don't feel guilty for being the way I am.
(and I get sort of suspicious of people who get upset about the logical and unemotional approach of users here- the social instinct thingy seems to be deeply embeded in some human brains)

You´ve just described me too. I never even realized, until a few months ago, that one is "supposed to" feel the same thing that the person is feeling. In addition, the questions on that test that I got the lowest score for were the questions asking if I can watch a movie or read a book, and feel like the events are happening to me too. The answer is no, usually not. But that doesn´t mean that I am not moved in some way.

I did a while back. Haven't heard back, but at least they know.

How can you feel a difference with 6 posts?

I was on a very cliquey website for a while and this place is a relief. Also, prove to me where this supposed empathy is in "normal" people? How do you know that they aren't just pretending to actually care or being able to put themselves in someone else's position that they've never been in just because it's the socially correct thing to say? I don't see actions matching up with words often when it comes to this supposed empathy most people have.

I have empathy gained from being in several different scenerios in life and yeah there are some situations I cannot relate to but after observing people who are deemed normal, they are like that too except if it is socially correct thing to do or say, they will follow guidlines and claim they understand something they really do not to make themselves seem more empathetic than they actually are.

If you question the person on their empathy and understanding of such a situation, watch what happens.

I have a little story that I want to repost on wrongplanet, in this thread.
I was driving in car with my friend. He was going to take one of his friends girlfriend to the bus station.
He had to stop at the way, because he had to walk his sisters dog. So he went out in the backyard with the dog, then I was left alone with a girl I didn't even knew. We stepped outside the car (Or rather I did, because I wanted to smoke, and she followed).
She then started to cry and began to tell me that her boyfriend had just broken up with her.
Now, I did felt bad for her and there she stood waiting for an answer, and me, I was blank. I didn't have a clue what to say, so I said (after a pretty long break): "Well, to bad for him".
Then she started to really cry and went back into the car.
I just stood back, with a bad feeling (yet again) and the day today, I'm still not entirely sure what happened.

The point: I felt bad for her, so I empathised. I just didn't know what to do with the information.

Are you sure that people are "supposed to" feel the same thing?
When you write "feel" the same thing, do you mean: feel it to the same extend, or not necessarily?
I think it's too big a demand to expect us to feel the same as the others in order to be empathetic.
Not even NTs do that.
In fact, lots of NTs express great wonder how in the world it can be that another person eg. likes a food they don't like themselves, or don't enjoy sharp sunshine like they do themselves, etc.
I wonder why that isn't considered lack of empathy. Or lack of Theory of Mind.
If people have it, they ought to use it. Or they should be honest and tell that even those who have those things, tend to use them selectively.

Oh hun remember this is part of the net its hard to feel stuff when a place is void of emotion ^_^

To be honest, the answer is no, I´m not sure. This is one of the things that I´m still trying to figure out.

I read a book once written by Maxine Aston- (ok, there was another thread questioning her work, but that´s another story)- where she explained that NTs can "beam" into someone, and FEEL the emotions of the other person, even if the person doesn´t say anything about how they feel. Well when I read this, I thought I was reading about some kind of extra-terrestrial- I had never heard of this before...(she claimed that people with AS can´t do this, but have a more intellectual way of experiencing empathy). So just to be sure, I asked 2 NT friends of mine. One said that he could "beam in" and feel someone´s emotions. The other said he could often, but sometimes he had to understand it intellectually. Then he said he felt guilty if he didn´t feel the same emotion as the other person. I asked him about that; and, apparently, he said you´re "supposed to" feel the same emotion. I asked how would that help? He then told me a story about children who had been orphaned, who felt much better when they were with other children who had been orphaned; even if they didn´t speak, just the fact that they were with others who felt the same thing worked as a kind of a therapy. (This was a scientific study, apparently). This is something that is incomprehensible to me; however, it sounds from his description, as well as that of Maxine Aston, that people can feel and sense the emotions of the other. I guess, also, the person feels understood and appreciated if you feel a similar feeling to them...if this "beaming" thing is accurate, I guess they would sense that too. In the case of my 2 friends, I´m not sure if this idea is cultural; for instance, they are Austrian, and the German word for empathy is "mitgefuhl", which means, literally, "feeling WITH". But of course in English, we say "feeling FOR"- ("I feel for you"). This could imply something different. Anyway, I´ve been trying to get some real answers to this, but I´m not really sure if I understand it correctly. I´ve brought this up on WP before, but I think most people understand it about like I do. If this is what "empathy" is supposed to be then no, I guess I can´t "beam" into someone and feel their emotions. I always knew I was supposed to react to the person, and put on a sad voice or make a sad face (if the person feels sad): I thought, all this time, that it was just appropriate to parallel their feeling, as a way of acknowledging and showing respect for what they were feeling. This was what I figured out, and that was my logic for doing that. Maybe I´m right...maybe I´m wrong.

Of course, I agree with you totally. NTs don´t seem to be able to "beam in" and feel the emotions of an autistic person. In this case, "like" seems to understand "like". So, maybe in the end, that´s all that empathy is; understanding and feeling for that which is like us, as we use ourselves as a base point to understand other people.

I don't know if I'm repeating myself here or not, but sometimes lately I've wondered whether emotional empathy is a form of synesthesia, where when you see someone feeling something, you reexperience your own feelings of when you were in the same situation, and that you can't feel empathy if you've never been there yourself. (Though you could feel sympathy.)

I do know what it's like finding it much easier being around other people who've been through the same thing (e.g childhood abuse). It takes the pressure off to be with others in the same boat, even if you don't feel empathy, because you're less likely to be attacked or misunderstood. It's just something in the air - a common understanding.

I remember taking that test. If I recall correctly, I scored 25 for personal distress.

As has been stated here, it's a common perception that people with AS lack empathy. Not being able to express empathy is completely different than not actually being capable of it intrinsically. I believe a lot of it has to do with the areas where people are expected to have empathy. That doesn't mean that people with AS don't have it at all; they may just have different areas of empathy concentration.

I'm also not so sure about the test. It's based on a fairly limited number of situations where a typical person would feel empathy. I can't help but think that a wider array of questions might capture very different results.

I dont do ridiculous things to people, I am sometimes rather anoing and reise 15 minuets later how anoying I am, but I'm not sure if that's empathy. When a pet dies, I dont tend to care, and keep making slightly sick jokes. and get told off. It's the same with ethics though. I dont like them...

THIS:

I am with you Morgana. Rarely do I find a character I relate too. And all to often, the ones who come closest are side characeters given a one dimensional treatment.

The test it's self... well, its a good start - I suppose. I think the questions are too general. there need to be more questions and they need to be more specific.



OK - I am confused.
My understanding was that empathy was the ability to read/perceive another emotional state. When you empathise, you know what the other is feeling and you can see things from their point of view. Sympathy, as I understand it, takes things a step further. When you sympathize, you share there other emotion. If they are outraged, you are outraged. If they are happy, you are happy. Could someone clear this up?

I guess it depends on your perspective, but sympathy is not as far of a step as empathy.

Have a look at this website; it sums up the difference pretty well: http://www.empathy-and-listening-skills.info/

To me, empathy is being able to experience the feelings of others without having to live the actual experience yourself.

I find, as a person with AS, that I may be empathic to someone's suffering/joy if I have lived a similar experience. However, there is no guarantee that I will respond correctly when I do feel empathy for another person's situation.

If I have no relevant experience to draw from, I often feel nothing.

I presume most with AS have similar experiences.

This kind of clears up a qualm I had from my diagnosis, since I've always considered myself a very empathetic person. The way I always put my own empathy is though I usually don't feel directly sad from an unfortunate story, I feel sorry for a person. The former is especially true if I don't have a relevant experience to draw from, too.

However, these results still seem pretty high for AS...
Perspective Taking = 27
Fantasy = 9
Empathetic Concern = 18
Personal Distress = 21

Has anyone else diagnosed got high results like this?

EDIT: Okay, I found the link posted here. I took the test by downloading a .doc file and scoring myself... which I'm sure I made a few mistakes on. =/

Fantasy = 12
Perspective Taking = 26
Empathetic Concern= 12
Personal Distress = 15

Last edited by typ3 on 20 May 2009, 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.