shamanic powers

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psych
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09 Feb 2009, 11:34 am

Here is an interesting lecture that touches on the difference between knowledge & information (from about 3mins onwards)

It touches indirectly on a lot of points raised so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEsrbSC1 ... playnext=1

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 12:17 pm

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Padium wrote:

This thread is so circular, its not even a spiral...

Yeah ... superstitious people who refuse to learn REAL knowledge vs. educated people who refuse to stop trying to teach what's real.

It's a seemingly endless struggle, but eventually reality always wins.

even Einstein said, that we only used 13 % of our brain.

Einstein was wrong.

> Link to Article <

Dr. Einstein was a Theoretical Physicist - not a biologist, not a medical doctor, not a neurologist, and not in any way educated in how the brain operates. Therefore, any statement that he is alleged to have made regarding the operation of the human brain would have been outside his realm of study.

Furthermore, repeatably verifiable evidence since Dr. Einstein's alleged statement has proven beyond any doubt that the "10-Percent Brain" statement is a myth, at best.

Welcome to the modern world.

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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 1:15 pm

JoJerome wrote:

Damn lack of electricity keeping me away from the fun threads like these...

On shamanism and AS sensitivity to same...

I am an atheist who also practices auto-hypnosis, Wicca and Neo-Paganism. I have no problem seeing my trance-like experiences as simply tapping into parts of the brain I'm not used to tapping into and my abstract self struggling to put familiar visual frames around concepts which have none. Because the experiences can be explained scientifically and psychologically doesn't have to negate their usefulness. I still find such a state allows me to examine a situation from a new angle I wouldn't have thought of before.

But neither does such a state convince me that I am therefore talking to gods and angels. If someone of a belief I don't hold were to claim that, I would say they are misinterpreting a contained, psychological experience to boost their own egos. What then makes me any better than that?

As for the AS influence, I hadn't considered that we tend to have more hypersensitivity/lack of sensitivity to certain drugs. My work is all done drug-free. I will say I do a whole lot more logical analyzing of the experiences, which is maybe why so many of us are atheists. We're more likely to see the experience as psychologically induced than to conclude "I thought of something new ... therefore god must have done it."

On psychic abilities, remote viewing, etc in general
My understanding is that they are not a switch you can turn on and off or say 'answer this specific question, such as what is Fnord's real name.' And yes, that comes off as a major cop-out. Scientifically, it fits. However, that makes such abilities almost impossible to prove scientifically and gives the phony psychic a huge excuse.

And, it goes back to my above point; how do we tell the difference between a true, psychic vision versus self-fulfilled prophecies or wishful thinking?

That said, if there were actual gods/entities involved and not just our own connections to a Unified Field, and those gods/entities really wanted to be taken seriously, then I would expect them to perform some specific act of validation, such as telling us Fnord's real name.

You can't force gods or entities to say something, just as they couldn't force Christ to admit that he was the King of the Jews.

I have been an atheist for 37 years and a stubborn one, and after my major trance all things I said and done in that trance compelled me to the other side and there was no way back.

Being doubled back, litterally falling flat on my back, on bended knees, when Hanuman appeared and nearly suffocated me and to which I apologised to him for not having worshipped him for so long, was strong enough a vision and proof that I or my brain wasn't imagining anything!

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Last edited by Loborojo on 09 Feb 2009, 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 2:34 pm

Loborojo wrote:

Being double back literally fallin gflat on my back on bended knees when Hanuman appeared and nearly suffocated me and to which I apologised to him for having worshipped him for so long, was strong aenough a vision and proof that I or my brain wasn't imagining anything!

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 2:43 pm

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

Being doubled back litterally falling flat on my back, on bended knees, when Hanuman appeared and nearly suffocated me and to which I apologised to him for not having worshipped him for so long, was strong enough a vision and proof that I or my brain wasn't imagining anything!

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

said the unbelieving Thomas.

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Padium
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09 Feb 2009, 2:54 pm

This is just turning into a he said/she said thing. I have experienced psychic phenomenon first hand, still don't know whether to believe in it or not. I don't really care either way. But lets drop this thread as it is going nowhere, and nobody on either side is really adding anything new, with the exception of the side for paranormal.

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 3:01 pm

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

said the unbelieving Thomas.

Demonstrate something for me to believe.

... and "Thomas" is not my real name ... another failure for the "Shaman." :roll:

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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 3:04 pm

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

said the unbelieving Thomas.

Demonstrate something for me to believe.

... and "Thomas" is not my real name ... another failure for the "Shaman." :roll:

I invite you for an Ayahuasca, san Pedro or Marihuana ritual with me, others get merely high, I go into trance and I read that Marihuana is not really an hallucinogic plant and yet I go in trance with it

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Padium
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09 Feb 2009, 3:07 pm

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

said the unbelieving Thomas.

Demonstrate something for me to believe.

... and "Thomas" is not my real name ... another failure for the "Shaman." :roll:

He never said it was your name, he was merely referring to what is known by some as a doubting Thomas, which is a reference to a biblical quote, and used to refer to someone who doubts something whether it be true or otherwise.

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 3:19 pm

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Loborojo wrote:

"Proof" to you, perhaps. But a purely subjective experience (if it actually occurred) is never proof enough to others.

I call "Hallucination" at best, and "Fabrication" at worst.

said the unbelieving Thomas.

Demonstrate something for me to believe.

... and "Thomas" is not my real name ... another failure for the "Shaman." :roll:

You're inviting me to a pot party. No thank you. One polluted mind between the two of us is one too many. I prefer to keep my thoughts healthy.

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Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 3:28 pm

Padium wrote:

I had challenged him previously to post my real name, provided that he obtained it from those "entities" that speak to him in his drug-induced euphoria. Later I expanded the conditions to include the use of any psychic ability. If he did so, then there would be little by the way of denial that I could muster.

Yet he failed, and he will fail again.

All junkies do.

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Dussel
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09 Feb 2009, 3:32 pm

Loborojo wrote:

there have been enough cases of paranormal evidence

If there is "evidence" it can be scientific proved, and is part of the material theory of the world.

Loborojo wrote:

and oddly enough thosuands of years of Shamanic rituals have never turrned it into a religon.

This less to do with those ritual, but a lot with state of development of society. A society below a certain state of organisation, a state which associated with a minimal idea about central organisation, is not in need of a religion; a society beyond a certain state obviously neither - as can be seen in our western societies. An organized religion is therefore something for societies above the most primitive stage of development and anywhere below a modern society.

Loborojo wrote:

On the other hand our doctors have been worshipped for centuries as the new gods whose answers and methods were unquestionable.

This just not true - modern medicine is the result of questioning old methods. It is the result of centuries of critical research. Our current knowledge is based on observation.

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09 Feb 2009, 5:04 pm

@Fnord and Dussel

Found an interesting scientific abstract written by a Mathematician from Australia, a Physiological Psychologist from Chechoslovakia, and a Physicist from U.S., published 2005, titled: A quantum hypothesis of brain function and consciousness. It's worth reading and trying to understand. Don't understand much of this stuff but intensely motivated to get whatever..in the way of comprehension. Have great respect for renegade scientists and little respect for the scientific pack mentality. Obviously these are renegades.

"Conscious activities form only a small segment of brain function..." and
"We call this conglomerate the RHS, Real Human Soul." quoted from the abstract.

watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~sreinis/quantum.html

Fnord
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09 Feb 2009, 5:19 pm

An hypothesis (the article in question) is little more than an idea or collection of ideas without repeatably verifyable proof to back it up.

A theory, at least, has the repeatably verifiable proof incorporated in it's substance.

It is interesting to note that there is no correlating report in any reputable scientific journal, which raises the question, "If the science of Reinis, Holub, and Smrz is valid, then why did they publish only in an obscure, Eastern European journal without any peer-group review to support it?"

An amusing article of no great significance, especially when compared to this one:

Marijuana Linked to Aggressive Testicular Cancer

Alan Mozes, HealthDay Reporter wrote:

Smoking marijuana over an extended period of time appears to greatly boost a young man's risk for developing a particularly aggressive form of testicular cancer, a new study reveals.

In fact, researchers found that men who smoked marijuana once a week or began to use the substance on a long-term basis while adolescents incurred double the risk for developing the fastest-spreading version of testicular cancer—nonseminoma, which accounts for about 40 percent of all cases.

> LINK TO COMPLETE ARTICLE <

So all of you wannabe poseur shamans out there should take note: Eventually, your "marihuana" usage is going the cause your testicles to fall off, or they'll have to be cut off to save your lives.

Welcome to the modern world!

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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 6:41 pm

I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my ritusld inviting th entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. Uncle Sam has gone too far in too many places, in so much that natives, mestizos alike are afraid to admit they chew coca leaves.

Long live Evo Morales to send US hegemony to the bin where it belongs. Andes Indians take pride in using Mother coca, a plant they respect as gift of the gods, and so do I.

No I don't indulge in what you call pot parties, this now says enough of what you called your experiences in sweat lodges, etc. they were mere western corrupted organised hedonistic pot parties,

So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

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Loborojo
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09 Feb 2009, 6:41 pm

I never held or hold pot parties, I do have my rituals inviting the entities to visit my place and my body, and I don't recognize the term 'drugs' which has polluted the world's concept of sacred plants and degraded and deprived many an indigenous nation in the jungle and Andes of its millenary sacred plant. Uncle Sam has gone too far in too many places, in so much that natives, mestizos alike are afraid to admit they chew coca leaves.

Long live Evo Morales to send US hegemony to the bin where it belongs. Andes Indians take pride in using Mother coca, a plant they respect as gift of the gods, and so do I.

No I don't indulge in what you call pot parties, this now says enough of what you called your experiences in sweat lodges, etc. they were mere western corrupted organised hedonistic pot parties,

So, don't judge me or my rituals until you actually sit down with me and see what happens.

_________________
Your Aspie score: 152 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 48 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie

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