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Cut the BS and just tell us the proof. Give us scientific studies if you've got them, give us actual facts and figures, give us charts and stuff. Write it out, don't worry too much about the 'laymen' language- there are plenty of skilled academics here that can decode it, if you will. If you have none of these things, then get some sponsors, a research grant or something and then come back here and present it to us. Believe, less people will flame you.

An absolute proof would require many thousands of pages - do you think I (or anyone) could just type them randomly to satisfy you. Of course not. Though if anyone had any short less direct ways of proving it asides brute force, please let me know.

In short you are a narcissistic arse with nothing of his own to show and would rather spend his time denigrating others to appease himself as opposed do anything constructive.

Wrong, yet again. For the umpteenth time too...

Go on... :rolleyes:

Why would I let an individual (being impeccably polite) publish it?

Not me wearing it. Though you need to try it on at some point.

Perhaps I was not entirely clear; when I requested evidence, the evidence I was asking for was evidence regarding the truth of your theory, not evidence that you have one or more theories. That you have one or more theories is well-evidenced, the truth of these theories is not.

Social cognition does not effect my sensory issues any more than any other cognitive load, and frankly, and if you think what is included in the concept of short term memory is what is being used by non-autistic people to "process social behavior", then you are much mistaken.

That does not make good sense to me. Short term memory entails an ability to recall into self-awareness a limited number of items within a limited time-span. Processing social behavior is very complex and requires more information than can be held in short term memory, and the bulk of the work load circumvents the processes described by the phrase "short term memory" (as it is widely conceptualized).
Either working memory is not itself a viable theory, or the processes it describes are not capable of doing what you wish to attribute to them.

I do not understand why you think otherwise. It could be that you do not understand what is described by the phrase "short term memory" or it could be a misunderstanding/lack of knowledge about what is entailed in social performance. You would be better placed to work which of these things it is (plausibly, it could be both).


Since it's not clear what you mean by memory, it's difficult to answer your question. Memory is not a real thing.

Depending on what one defines memory as of course. But even still, how does "you use memory to do X" correlate to "therefore short term memory Y"?


People are able to process information and act on the information without involving what is described by the phrase "short term memory".

An individual in a coma is not stand-alone and is dependent on the care of others, but that is not particularly pertinent to ASDs.

There is still no evidence that short term memory is a causal factor in a significant number of autistic traits/features.

Is it? I do not see any evidence demonstrating this.
Right, and obviously non-autistic peoples' chances of performing optimally require using the equipment they have been genetically endowed with.....without damaging or destroying it...
Does this mean that everyone's priorities (especially during the very relevant period of child hood development) will be established based on their needs? I do not think so, otherwise no child would place a premium on staying up late all night, playing video games while eating junk food, yet many children would prioritize these things over going to bed at a decent hour, limiting time spent doing sedentary activities and making healthy eating choices.
Non autistic people have the same need (to use what they've got without damaging it), yet they very commonly form priorities that do not best fit the meeting of this need. I see no evidence that so much as indicates that autistic people necessarily fail to do likewise.


Short term memory is not vital to processing all information.
I do not know what you mean by force to conform; you give no indication as to what you intend the scope of "force" or "conform" to be.

At any rate, this is no cure at all for the symptoms of autism if what you describe about short term memory and its role in ASDs is correct.

If short term memory issues are causing me to not be able to perform socially, and I can only make the attempt by "damaging" myself (without full success evidently), then either way (forced to conform or not) I am still stuck with one of the most debilitating symptoms of autism; communication and social understanding/performance deficits.

I see no cure here.

Then show us some evidence. Just evidence, a link, something.

well pandd, maybe this is what Kangoogle wants.

In order to prove a theory you must first have a theory.


NTs probably use both ST and LT memory for processing social behavior, with the preponderance in ST. NTs have the advantage of the social system being "intuitive" [ugh, for lack of better term]...and they can build on their successes.

Autistics have no social success to speak of, therefore nothing upon which to build. Every time for them is like starting from scratch. Social cognition is disqualified from autistic ST memory on the basis of 3 criteria: 1)it is not sense data 2)it is superficial and 3)it is ambiguous. Autistic ST memory, apparently, is relegated to dealing with sense data, in-depth analysis, and precision/clarity of focus [as opposed to ambiguous social information].


The processing of social behavior being complex is irrelevant. It is a good deal more feasible for NTs 1)because for them it is "intuitive" 2) because they can build on previous successes, and 3)because they are driven to compete for rank in the pecking order.

People with Alzheimers are almost totally incapacitated due to ST memory loss while their LT memory remains superlatively impeccable. Alzheimers patients are indicative of what a damaged ST memory does to a person. Properly functioning ST memory [functioning as it is genetically designed to function] is imperative for anything beyond staring and drooling. Any accomplishment whatsoever requires an intact ST memory.


It has been explained in detail how autistics cannot adapt to NT society due to differences in neurological wiring, priorities determining memory processing based upon those genetic differences, precisely what goes into ST memory, and why and how this information is retrieved. When autistics are forced to use their ST memory to accommodate social conditioning, it doesn't work because their ST memory is wired to perform processing tasks that are diametrically opposed to the NTs processing tasks.


The cure is refraining from ruining our genetically derived priorities for selecting what goes into our ST memory and determines on what basis information is encoded and stored data is retrieved. Forcing us to accommodate the processing of information that we don't know how to process is a conditioning tactic designed to either drive us crazy or kill us.

The only way NTs will stop trying to drive us crazy and kill us is if we can show them how terribly useful we could be if they will only stop torturing us and threatening genocide.

Actually, VERY old memories are almost set in CONCRETE. ALSO, the older a memory is, the more likely it is to have alternate routes. Alzheimers destroys EVERYTHING! ALL memories! It basically kills brain cells and advances like a cancer. It is only logical that the most embedded, protected, and redundant, SEEM to be so invulnerable. The newest memories may only have one link. Destroy that link, and the memory is GONE! The oldest may have many THOUSANDS of links, and one or even a hundred connections won't be missed.

Aha. None of which demonstrates or indicates that this theory will ever be evidenced as true.


How can that be the case given the huge volume of processing tasks and the limited capabilities of short term memory?

Short term memory does not come close to having the capacity to process a small fraction of the information processed during successful social performance/social learning/social comprehension. That being the case it is impossible for short term memory to handle the bulk of what it cannot handle a small fraction of.

The theory falls apart if non-autistic people are using something other than short term memory to do these tasks unless we also are using this same thing the same way.

This is not beside the point; it is the point. Intuition is simply the result of neuro-processes and it is these neuro processes we are having trouble with (which causes us to use our self-awareness and moment to moment continuity perception processes [including short term memory] to do tasks that they are not competent to perform and which are not within their typical scope of operations).

If we are using short term memory to do tasks these other processes should be handling, then it is not a problem with short term memory (or at least not a problem specific to autism), it is these other processes' failure to properly occur that is the problem. Any use of short term memory to cope with this deficiency is a coping strategy, not autism or its cause.


Everyone has no social success to speak of at the outset. They do have propensities which provoke and then work with social success.
Every time a crying baby is attended to, it has experienced social success. When the attention includes the meeting of a need that inspired the crying, this is a super-success. There is no evidence that short term memory is directly implicated in utilizing this success for the purpose of social learning.
There is no evidence that this is true.

There is no evidence that people without autism are using their short term memory for the tasks you are attributing to short term memory in order for this theory to even look like it could work (and indeed above you concede that there are other processes entailed and imply that these are not fully functional in autistic people as they are in non-autists), and the evidence that does exist indicates that the volume of information processing entailed in social learning and social performance, is well outside the data handling capabilities of short term memory.


No it is not. If we know equipment X cannot handle tasks of the complexity of Y and we know that task Z is of the complexity of Y, then we know as a matter of fact that equipment X is not responsible for the successful performance of task Z.


No kidding!
It's not intuitive because of their short term memory, but it is "intuitive" for them, but not for us, and this is the essence of why the problem is not a short term memory one.

Short term memory does not explain why it is not intuitive for us.

The neuro-processes that cause non-autists to process information, without the use of short term memory, so that they learn things without conscious effort and can put them into practice without any understanding of whats involved (much less relying on short term memory processes to remind and inform them as they go) is the core of the problem. Any reliance on short term memory this might cause an autistic people to develop, is an effect of the cause, not the cause itself.

Most of the "building on previous successes" does not entail short term memory.

The drive to compete for rank does not arise from short term memory processes.

So again even if we accept all the other assertions that are not evidenced or that are contrary to the available evidence, you still cannot get from short term memory to autism using only social pressures and expectations.

You still need to explain the absence of a drive not caused by short term memory, in addition to explaining what is going wrong so that processes that should occur to result in intuitive social learning/performance/comprehension are not.

This is incorrect. Alzheimers is not merely or simply a loss of short term memory.
If someone with Alzheimers cannot remember what they did this morning, then they are experiencing an inability to access a long term memory, not a short term memory.
Indeed, I know of many instances where a person with Alzheimers remembers an event from 20 years ago and information from 20 seconds ago, but not information from 2 hours ago. The 20 year ago memory is a long term memory, as is the 2 hour ago memory, but the 2 seconds ago memory is within the scope of short term memory, and able to be recalled. Alzheimers is clearly not simply "short term memory loss".

Every human accomplishment requires being alive, that does not mean that any non-accomplishment is necessarily caused by being dead.
How "autistic" are Alzheimers patients such that you can say because Alzheimers causes a difficulty, whatever is entailed in that difficulty proves something about autism? Being dead will prevent good social performance, that does not mean being dead is the cause of autistic difficulties.

Further, if as you say Alzheimers is indicative of what a damanged ST memory does, and therefore is an example of non properly functioning ST memory, then every Alzheimers patient would always be doing no more than staring and drooling if your above assertion were entirely correct. Yet many patients with Alzheimers wander off and get lost as a result of their condition and even have interactions with members of the public where the patient can demonstrate that they are not entirely without lucidity of thought/reason even while being unable to recall their age, or what year it is, or what they had for breakfast that morning.

Wandering off requires more than staring and drooling. As does engaging and socially performing in respect to other people, things people effected by Alzhiemers have provably been observed to do even while impacted by memory/recall dysfunction.


No number of explanations can trump the evidence that many autistic people do "adapt" to society.


No amount of repeating the same unproven and highly unlikely assumptions constitutes evidence that these assumptions are true. I am aware of what you believe you have explained. The fact remains that you have not produced a shred of evidence that these assumptions accurately depict reality.

As you yourself have conceded, there is an element of what we call intuition (ie non short term memory processes) entailed in the social learning/comprehension and performance of non-autistic people. Why would autistic people be forced to use short term memory to attempt the tasks that should be handled by the neuro-processes that give rise to and are then handled by what we call "intuition" unless there is something wrong with those processes?


How would this alleviate the symptom of being impaired in social performance, learning and intuition? How would not even trying to learn information that I should have learned without trying, going to learn that information for me?

And where is the evidence that these "genetically derived priorities" exist as described? Where is the evidence that our priorities are any more genetically derived than somebody who's priority is to get drunk, or that they are any more productive/healthy for us?

How does not forcing us to accommodate the processing of information cure us of the inability to process the information and the effects thereof?


None of which indicates how I would as a result "magically" become socially proficient if they did not try to drive me crazy or kill me, nor why I would fail to be socially proficient as a result of my short term memory not being up to a task that non-autistic peoples' short term memory is also not up to the task of.

Actually, BYE!

If it is a current social situation, it is dealt with in ST memory. However there will be elements that trigger past memories of similar encounters. For NTs, they have a backlog of successful exchanges which they can call up. And also perhaps some failures, but those wouldn't be particularly helpful. Social skills are built on successful interactions, and it is logical to assume the past ones are in LT memory.

Please don't hope for too much in terms of an explanation....this theory is sort of flying by the seat of its pants..and you can forget altogether about a proof as we haven't really got a working theory yet.......Your critique is good but helpful suggestions would be even better..



NTs are more likely to be using both ST and LT. Autistics can't look for much help from LT memory but they are probably negatively influenced by it---in terms of past traumas [mostly unconscious] and lack of past success which would affect their confidence.

What "other processes" are you referring to?


As far as I can tell, there are informational processing tasks which can only be handled by the ST memory. Remember Alzheimers? When ST memory breaks down, everything in the way of accomplishments is lost. Therefore by deduction we arrive at the conclusion that any accomplishment [including the implementation of social skills] requires ST memory to work well, not flawlessly perhaps, but it has to be working adequately.

The whole premise of this memory-central-to-understanding-autism theory is that autistics do different things with their memory than NTs. And this is genetically based.

Indeed, there is no evidence it is untrue either. It is all based upon logical assumption and reasonable intuition at this stage.


It's intuitive for NTs. The system was designed for them, or they designed the system. Either way, their ST memory, determined by their genetic predisposition, is wired to manipulate superficial contradictory information to their advantage. They seem to have no problem with creating a false image of themselves in order to gain rank and status. Autistics, however, will never be able to pull this off because they are wired differently.


It is well known that people with Alzheimers have ST memory loss. The point in repeatedly referring to them is because ST memory is at the core of this discussion. However, we aren't trying to ascertain precisely what is going on with Alzheimers people....rather we want to explain how autistics can be thoroughly incapacitated [usually to a lesser degree] through a similar [but not same] dysfunctioning of their ST memory. Which is caused by being forced to use it for a purpose it was never [genetically] designed for. As has been suggested earlier, the autistic brain when functioning at full capacity--is perfectly suited for techno-excellence.....whereas the NT brain is not. The reason the autistic brain is better suited for technological and scientific advancement is to be found in the ST memory functioning [and to LT memory as well....but autistics have so much trauma in their LT memory, that until we have a fairly large group of autistics spared of torture in their development, we don't know what they can accomplish with trauma-free LT memory], mandated by genetically determined neurological wiring.


One would probably not be incorrect in assuming the number of autistics who do adapt successfully to NT society relative to the ones who utterly fail at it, is a relatively small percentage. And of those who succeed, one might also assume that the majority of them are geeks who have found their niche. This is because a small percentage of autistics manage to come through socialization trauma, with their ST memory relatively intact due to constantly exercising it the appropriate way - the geek way - which is very healing to the autistic ST memory....this is the way it was intended to be used.

The term "geek" is meant to convey a socially awkward but highly intelligent technically sophisticated individual with proclivities everyone finds a bit weird but they are respected for their high intelligence and capacity to earn a good wage. Thus, they have not really adapted to NT society so much as they have dodged a bullet...a whole slew of bullets and a life of total misery.


Impairment is caused by socialization. And it is probably unintentional. If it were realized how damaging socialization is to autistics, and if it were also known that the way we think is actually a god-send for a technologically driven civilization, and if it were known that the reason why most of us can't be properly socialized is because we have different priorities for our ST memory functioning........things might be very different indeed. Rather than being the social pariahs we currently are, we might be more appreciated for our naturally endowed neurological gifts.

Short term memory refers to how information is made accessible to self aware functions.
To be clear, most social cognition and performance information processing is not accessible to self awareness functions, and short term memory is simply the processes that makes information accessible to self awareness. If you cannot know it, it is not in your short term memory.

The obvious indicator of short term memory 'bi-pass' is the arrival of information as "intuition". They feel it but the reasons are obscure to them. Nothing in your short term memory is obscure to your self-aware processes.


What is normally meant by long term memory is not hugely entailed either. The bulk of the work is in non-self aware accessible brain processes, and memory refers to those processes that enable us to "recall" (aka be aware of) information.

What "other processes" are you referring to? [/quote]
The processes that actually handle the tasks you attribute to short term memory.
Most processes do not entail what is meant by memory in the context of the human brain.

This is not an accurate description of what is occurring. It has already been pointed out to you that what is happening in Alzheimers does not fit the misconstruction you are attempting to foist on it.

That is not a sound argument.

I am aware this is your premise, but the truth value of that premise is false.


It's only reasonable if you either do not understand what is sensibly within the scope of memory or do not understand very much about the cognitive requirements of social performance and its foundational skills, or both these things are true.

Not because of memory, so memory cannot explain why it is not intuitive for us.

I am not entirely clear what system you refer to, but what I will say is no system I am guessing you might mean was "designed" (in any relevant to this discussion sense) for or by anyone.

That is just not true. Many non-autistics cannot readily (or at all) pull off a false image, and many autistic people can and do.


This is not going to work because there is no meaningful correlation being established, nor such a correlation in sight.

No one is arguing that short term memory and memory generally are not very utilitarian, nor that their lack is not detrimental. Common sense predicts as much but does not prove that memory is the core issue of autism. Your example of Alzheimers does not stand to establish anything other than the utility of memory and the common sense fact that memory dysfunction has detrimental effects.

No one's short term memory is designed or competent to handle the "core" tasks that are not being achieved efficiently in autistic brains as compared to non-autistic brains. Nor their long term memory either for that matter. No one's memories are particularly adept at handling these tasks.



There is no evidence of this (indeed its not even a clear statement because it's not clear what is entailed in "socialization" or "impairment").

Whatever the nicest most gentlest way of suggesting to someone that their assumptions are naive is, please consider it said in regards to the paragraph above.

As you may know, if you read my rant, I strenuously object to the use of the term intuition and the lack thereof when attempting to explain autistic social ineptitude. The way NTs use intuition for social skills is entirely different from the way autistics use intuition for navigating the social waters. Furthermore, what is basically unsconscious to NTs is probably more conscious to autistics...i.e., autistics know the social system is based upon deception, is thoroughly and completely biased against them... and they learn rather quickly they want no part of it. However wanting no part of it usually doesn't sink in right away because friendship is desired even required for fully satisfactory life experience. When autistics realize they will have to be something they are not, and never can be, it becomes undeniably clear that they can never win this game...and for many of them getting a barely passing "D" grade is impossible as well.. So reluctantly, they become resigned to a life of isolation in which they are almost entirely misunderstood by family, friends, and strangers....

NTs generally don't question their ability to become a part of the social system..i.e., they want to be part of a system that is designed for them, with which they are comfortable. You have, it seems, referred to this as an intuitive feeling. Autistics don't have this "intuitive feeling" or "comfort factor" with the social system. And after getting their feet wet a few times, they learn to distrust it..i.e., there is a discomfort factor. For the autistic, being a part of the system is not a given...and if they don't realize this from the get-go, it is soon drummed into them that they are defective and outcast. The autistic individual will usually try for many years [up to about early 20's] to adapt/conform/fit in....at least until they've been sufficiently traumatized......whereupon they become overwhelmed by feelings of helplessness, uselessness, and self-loathing at the very least. In the not uncommon but more extreme cases, they become mentally unstable and suicidal.

Torture of the autistic derives from the double-bind of being forced to fit into a social system diametrically opposed to one's neurological wiring and into which "fitting" is generally, for most of us, quite impossible. We are told we must fit in while simultaneously we are continually reminded every few seconds that we are defective and not quite acceptable for fitting in. What a conundrum!

As memory is key to any processing of information, and as ST memory is key to any task, action, or accomplishment [including attainment and accomplishment of social skills]...it would logically follow, that for any neuro-diversity equipping the autistic informational processing system, ST memory would be key. Now, if you mean to imply that intuition or some other mental/emotional neurolocially based process is occuring that is more central to information processing than ST memory.....you have yet to state exactly what these processes are and how they might function for information processing tasks.

The fact that we have different priorities assigned to the functions of ST memory processing, is precisely why we cannot, nor are we allowed to......fit in.







Please state what these "brain processes" are.......would that be intuition-related?


You haven't stated explicitly what these "processes" are.


Right or wrong: Any task we are consciously performing involves ST memory function. Please state whether you agree or disagree.


Whether or not you agree with this statement, surely you comprehend what system is being referred to. If you haven't a clue, it begs the question: are you feigning naivete? Be assured it is meant in the kindest gentlest way...





What "core" tasks are you referring to?

Which rant?
Quite aside from the fact that you introduced intuition, any objection you might have to the word, is neither here nor there to others unless you can establish a sufficiently compelling argument that convinces others that the word is without utility (just as I suspect I would need a compelling argument to convince you to not ever use the words "table", "hill" or "library").

Intuition describes real and extant outcomes for which there are material causes. Unless you wish to posit an equally or more useful and equally clearer or clearer term/phrase, then that's what I shall use in this context to refer generally to that particular outcome and/or its material causes.

Indeed, but not because of memory so far as I can see. Only if you can establish a causal role of memory in this difference will your theory have any chance of being true.

Indeed, which is how we know short term memory is not entailed in any significant way.

Actually many with autism do not know the system (whatever you mean by "system") is based on deception and completely biased against them. Many people without autism believe that deception abounds throughout human interactions and many believe that the world in general is partial in a way that is negative towards them personally.

You can learn how untrue that is by perusing WP and noting all the posts from autistic people who desire social interaction and to be able to socialize normally along side non-autistic people. Even many who claim to no longer want this, often explain that they did want it and if they felt they could have it, they would pursue it. Many who claim to not want to socialize also explain that this is because they keep getting hurt in the attempt and it is beyond their competencies.

If you do not wish to socialize, then this is your personal thing, it is not universal to the spectrum.


Social interaction is indeed very important to the health and well-being of human beings. This is because of the kind of animal we are. We are a social animal; we rely on inter-dependence as our primary survival strategy and humans have species typical traits that facilitate successful social relationships because without them, humans are screwed.

If and only if memory is the core set of attributes responsible for ensuring the development of social pre-disposition and competency, is memory a viable thing to consider as the core issue in autism. So far as I can tell it is not the case that memory is core to this development. Indeed, in so far as memory is currently understood, its development lags behind foundational social learning that takes place in infancy. In other words the brain processes and competency development at issue in social inter-relatedness/performance/cognition/learning initiates before memory systems are up and running. So memory cannot be the issue. Cause always proceeds effect (or at least above quantum level).

Note that your cure will not change this, leaving the bulk of autistic people as socially isolated (with consequential suffering) as they are now. Indeed, since your so-called cure is to not even attempt to imbue autistic people with any means of socially connecting and/or performing, I would suggest this "cure" would actually compound what many identify as the most negative aspect of being autistic.
I do not believe that I have and would actually consider the word "instinct" a better one for that particular aspect of typical functioning. Better still would be refer to these drives as (social) "pre-dispositions".

And that is not because of memory though. I have no idea why if you know these things you would be barking up the memory tree.

None of this explains why there is this core difference that bears no indication of any connection to memory. I am well aware that there are core pre-disposition differences and have yet to see how this could possibly be caused by memory when these pre-dispositions occur prior to the development stages at which memory becomes functional in any meaningful sense of the word.

Be that as may or may not be, this does not in any way shape or form add any weight to this "memory as central" theory.


Every few seconds? Wow, how dramatic, although not entirely accurate.

You should be aware that none of this implicates memory in a causal role.


No memory is not key to any processing of information. The whole point of the concept of memory is it allows us to think and talk about particular aspects of the information processing occurring in our brains, without referring to every and any information processing in our brains. Brain function is information processing and not all brain function is memory.

No it is not.
Short term memory is not a biological thing. It is a concept that refers to those processes that make certain kinds of information accessible to self-awareness, so anytime a person knows "x is angry" but has to stop and think how they know this, and that takes longer than the knowing itself, they did not use short term memory to arrive at the conclusion that x is angry.

I am not presenting a theory, so there is actually no onus on me to provide any information.
But to be clear, neither have you. Memory is not a biological entity, it refers to outcomes and is no more scientifically sound than the concept of "intuition". Both the concept "memory" and the concept "intuition" are indirect observational models used to describe unknown biological processes. Memory is no more a statement about what processes are involved and how they work than intuition is. Remember memory is not a real biological thing. It is a concept that describes, based on outcomes ,what we think might be a good way to consider aspects of cognition. Intuition is another such concept that describes, based on outcomes, what we think might be a good way to consider aspects of cognition.

I feel as though you have yet to grapple successfully with the implications of memory not being a real biological thing.

This is complete nonsense Alba. I am mystified as to how one earth you can conclude that a set of processes that hold approximately 7+/-2 items for about 30 seconds could possibly be responsible for handling the huge load of information entailed in human social performance/cognition/learning. It's like trying to suggest the Atlantic Ocean might have resulted from someone knocking over an open soft-drink bottle. The maximum capacity of a soft drink bottle rules out that possibility, and the maximum capacity of short term memory does the same with regards to your theory.

Short term memory can no more handle these huge volumes of information (you are construing it as handling) than can a soft drink bottle contain the volume of liquid that we refer to as the Atlantic Ocean.


Intuition is a handy word to refer to them, just as memory is a handy word to refer to other unknown processes. I feel as though you still do not properly understand that memory is not a real thing. Intuition is no more vague and disconnected from a physical account for what is happening neurologically than intuition, yet I suspect you object to intuition on the grounds that it is as vague and disconnected from physical reality, as is the concept memory.

Are you aware that memory and intuition are concepts of the same kind and type? Memory is no more descriptive of physical reality than intuition.


You have not stated any processes either as you would realize if you properly understood the implications of what memory actually means.


I disagree.

I think you need to consider what your theory means if you widen the scope of memory to include "any information processing occurring in the brain". Because at that point your theory is utterly redundant. What exactly do you think is the utility and novelty of the theory "brain processes are central to autism"? Hardly a revelation.

No, I do not.


Then I will kindly not require you beg the answer and simply give it freely; I am not feigning naivete.


The problem is society is not a system that I would describe as designed and I think this is a very reasonable objection. If it is a system, then it is an accidental/incidental system, that is the result of much independent action by many independent actors, who did not design themselves, and who did not have a comprehensive overview of the "system" before, after or during their intervention.


The "core" tasks that are occurring differently in autistic brains vs non-autistic brains.

Good conversation revolves around memory though - or at least in the concept of this society. You might want to read further into it...

Indeed, which is how we know short term memory is not entailed in any significant way.

Actually many with autism do not know the system (whatever you mean by "system") is based on deception and completely biased against them. Many people without autism believe that deception abounds throughout human interactions and many believe that the world in general is partial in a way that is negative towards them personally.

You can learn how untrue that is by perusing WP and noting all the posts from autistic people who desire social interaction and to be able to socialize normally along side non-autistic people. Even many who claim to no longer want this, often explain that they did want it and if they felt they could have it, they would pursue it. Many who claim to not want to socialize also explain that this is because they keep getting hurt in the attempt and it is beyond their competencies.

If you do not wish to socialize, then this is your personal thing, it is not universal to the spectrum.


Social interaction is indeed very important to the health and well-being of human beings. This is because of the kind of animal we are. We are a social animal; we rely on inter-dependence as our primary survival strategy and humans have species typical traits that facilitate successful social relationships because without them, humans are screwed.

If and only if memory is the core set of attributes responsible for ensuring the development of social pre-disposition and competency, is memory a viable thing to consider as the core issue in autism. So far as I can tell it is not the case that memory is core to this development. Indeed, in so far as memory is currently understood, its development lags behind foundational social learning that takes place in infancy. In other words the brain processes and competency development at issue in social inter-relatedness/performance/cognition/learning initiates before memory systems are up and running. So memory cannot be the issue. Cause always proceeds effect (or at least above quantum level).
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Understood by whom? Psychology is half people making stuff up - really its academia for intellectual lightweights.

You should meet me - I rather amusingly have the occasional conversation with people telling me how awful this person with autism is (in those words). More or less I have mastered their little game - not that I enjoy playing it of course. Nor am I the only one.
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Note that your cure will not change this, leaving the bulk of autistic people as socially isolated (with consequential suffering) as they are now. Indeed, since your so-called cure is to not even attempt to imbue autistic people with any means of socially connecting and/or performing, I would suggest this "cure" would actually compound what many identify as the most negative aspect of being autistic.
The bulk of autistic people are probably undiagnosed tbh.

I do not believe that I have and would actually consider the word "instinct" a better one for that particular aspect of typical functioning. Better still would be refer to these drives as (social) "pre-dispositions".

And that is not because of memory though. I have no idea why if you know these things you would be barking up the memory tree.
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Because its the only problem I have ever had in learning how to play their social game. Well asides finding out about and understanding their society.

None of this explains why there is this core difference that bears no indication of any connection to memory. I am well aware that there are core pre-disposition differences and have yet to see how this could possibly be caused by memory when these pre-dispositions occur prior to the development stages at which memory becomes functional in any meaningful sense of the word.
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Try learning to become socialised and see where you get stuck.

Memory is a key part of neurological wiring.

Even assuming the system evolved (the research into social darwinism is a bit weak tbh) - it still does not destroy our argument.

The "core" tasks that are occurring differently in autistic brains vs non-autistic brains.[/quote]

Kangoogle, if you wish the benefit of my knowledge, either quit with the immature, snarky and petty school yard insults, or leave the conversing (with me about this "theory") to Alba, whose memory is more than up to the task of conversing well, which kinds of proves its own point really.

The fact is there are entirely mute people who are more socially adept than many of us. Even illiterate mute people can perform socially better than many of us, so what has conversation got to do with it?


Really? So you pick out the cherry you want for your theory, without regard to its made up quality and its source (intellectual lightweights) and expect us to believe this bunk?
Your entire theory is that one of these made up by intellectual lightweight things is core to autism. Please keep in mind, memory is not a real biological thing.

Are you talking to me or Alba, because the comments you appear to replying to were posted by Alba. If you two want to meet, you certainly do not need my permission so I am a bit confused as to who you intend to direct these particular comments to.

What do you imagine the relevance of this is? I am not aware of any correlation between late diagnosis and a history of never having wanted to socialize, so I see no reason to assume without cause that the diagnosed are not representative of the whole in this particular aspect.


No it is not. Firstly, the aside is not an aside at all; is it core to the issue.
You might find your memory inadequate to perform tasks that memory is not supposed to perform. What you need to understand is non-autistic people are not using their memory for these tasks; the unsuitability of memory processes to handle these tasks is common to autistics and non-autistics.



The implicit assumption that I have not attempted to acquire social performance/cognition skills is entirely erroneous.


What a meaningless statement. Memory is an outcome orientated concept, it is not referring to a place in the brain or even particular known physical processes. There are no wires in the brains of most people, and I feel you would benefit greatly from learning a bit of caution around analogies/metaphors so that you do not conflate them with what they are attempting to convey a sense of.


Your argument is incoherent quite aside from whether or not one chooses to view social structures and/or society(as a whole) as having been designed.