Do you see yourself as evil?

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Hah... I'm okay with that. Watch a few war documentaries and read the BBC and tell me if you don't feel somewhat similar. Enough of those things and you'll die a little inside.

mechanima,

As far as I'm aware,

Shame:

It's generally knowing that you have violated societal/cultural norms, i.e., killing your neighbours pets is usually frowned upon; nope, I don't feel that either.

Guilt:

That's how you feel inside and whether you've crossed some subjective moral threshold that you hold dear; nope, I can't say that I feel that either.

This has been enlightening; I always thought I had an abundance of guilt. I guess they were right. I ain't going to cross my threshold anytime soon, so I'm not putting it to the test.

I've read a lot on psychopathy as of late, to help understand my father and for why the way that he was; not just the "nice" pieces of research. There's bias the other way too, much demonizing of people with such. He was no saint, and I seem to find more negative than positive when I think of him, but there were good moments; he wasn't a demon, but he wasn't a good person.

He was diagnosed with such after numerous run-ins with the justice system. And me, I was too, and I've never had a run-in with such, and people often tell me that I'm a "good" person [even though I don't feel it]. I don't do "bad" things, like my father did and still does, but I still have the same label. It's funny how that goes. I just want to kill, kill and kill, not become a leech that doesn't give.

The moral of this story is, I have no idea.

Have you had a run-in with a psychopath that turned out bad?

Thank heavens you have accepted that!



Absolutely, the demonising is as much about romanticisation and sentimentalisation as that article "The Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath" is, just in a different way.

Though Bram Stoker's "Dracula" is probably an incedibly detailed, fictionalised portrait of a real psychopah (perhaps actor Henry Irving), psychopaths (and actors), are, at the end of the day, only mortal, not the mythical objects of superstition they are sometimes made out to be.

The "internet culture of Psychopathy" is pretty much rubbish that frequently abuses the term psychopath as a polite way of saying "b*st*rd". Most of those involed wouldn't recognise a psychopath if it was wearing a large, clearly printed label. Some of them are fairly nasty people in their own right.



Daniel, I think you are trying a bit too hard to "be Dexter", when what you really need to do is try too hard to become you. In fact, if you are familiar with the series, one of the most intriguing facets is that as he discovers more, and more about his background it become less and less clear if he is a killer due to an inherited, psyhopathic nature, or due to the unthinkable trauma of his mother's death.



You may NEVER know. All you can do is to live your life the best way you can, then it doesn't matter.



Several, and more that were neutral.

Although, I have also had plenty of "run ins" with every kind of people that turned out pretty darn badly too.

M.

I know the series, and I'm nothing like him. I just have an urge to hunt, but without any reason other than the "feeling" it produces (not for social gain or status, not to provide sustenance, not for approval, but just to "feel" good); plus aggressive tendencies that are impulsive in certain situations (unrelated to the ASD).

I have no superficial charm, promiscuous sexual behavioror (yuck!), or pathological lying, but when I was younger, I was quite well at hiding what I did, i.e., deceit. Plus all of the other features; no remorse, guilt, empathy (the caring kind), etcetera.

I guess an asocial psychopath would fit me, which really, if you read Hans Asperger's papers; aggression and antisocial behaviour were there amongst some of his patients. Wing's paper on AS too, where she had a boy who poisoned his classmates by experimenting on them with poisons; that's quite antisocial and lacking in empathy.

I don't feel evil at all. Wicked, yes - but not evil.

I used to be a pissed-off youth but I have never felt evil. I have always been a "protector". Even as a little girl, I'd "avenge" the weak and geeky.

I am not a religious person but I like to think I'm the human opposite of evil. And this goes under the delusional column but I feel a kinship with the Archangel Michael.

Other than as a sad defense mechanism, what good is thinking you're evil?

I'd rather discuss how the deficits in psychopathy (positively) influence autistic impairments, but I never found anything good on that so far.

Then this is some brand new stuff you should be looking at.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093343.htm

M.

PS. Incidentally, in Vienna, in the 1930 and 40s "autistischen Psychopathen' was just "Autistic Mental Disorder" im Deutsch. That is the kind of confusion that lead to the term "Sociopathy" being created to replace the term "Psychopathy" in it's newer context.

Last edited by mechanima on 31 Mar 2009, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Explain what you mean by "deficits in psychopathy"?

I meant the impairments. I just meant the lack of automatically felt compassion, the inability to experience the same attachment other people have towards others in varying degrees and the lack of remorse. But also the kind of (quite stereotypical) positives sides such as that some are able to lie effortlessly, are manipulative and cunning by nature at their best. Adding autism onto psychopathy alters it and I'm fascinated by the results of such.

Evil no, different yes. But I suppose all it takes is being different to some to qualify as "evil" (or at the very least, undesirable). I took a lot of crap over the years for simply not seeing things the way others did, for not getting caught up in fads or gossip or whatever the latest trivial inanity was. I wouldn't say I lacked compassion or empathy, depends on the situation. I hate bullying, hate seeing it done to others because I know what it feels like, same with being ostracized, and I have stuck up for others. But I don't feel sorry for anyone who is a victim of their own stupidity.

I think you are on to a loser there. As far as I can see, psychopathy may well be, to all intents and purposes, no more than a different place on the autism spectrum (albeit a rather predatory one).

(And I really cannot see an ability to lie effortlessly, and be manipulative and cunning as positives under any circumstances??)

I tried not being evil but I suck at being good.

My friends are scared of me when I get vengful, because they rant and rave and do nothing. When I get that angry they have to hold me back. I am not proud of many of the things I've done. Some of which, IMO, I don't deserve forgiveness for.

I was diagnosed with aspergers, schizoaffective disorder, paranoia, and a from of borderline sociopathic disorder. I know the difference between right and wrong from a textbook stand point, but if it involves my actual emotions the line goes away. Anyone who's ever threatend my family, friends or pets, somehow becomes less than human not deserving of respect or equal treatment. I see them as beneath animals.

Sometimes I scare myself, I am genuinly afraid of what I could do without my frineds to be my concience. My honesty with people, the respect I give them has never come from my feelings, insticts or concience, but from a honor code a therapist insisted I adopt so I wouldn't become a danger to society. I believe my unwavring attachment to this code is because of AS ritual behaviours.

I've never been able to say this 'out loud' before.

The short answer is yes sometimes I think I'm evil.

I can't see it as just a different place on the spectrum because that wouldn't explain why it influences some autistic symptoms or resulting co-morbis which it does. Unless of cause there are several causes that make a person display psychopathic traits of which some are related to the spectrum in whatever way, while others are not. Then I think it's possible that it somehow relates the spectrum.

That's an interesting thought though, that there are forms of it that are related to PDDs.



How do you mean that? A certain degree of the ability to manipulate is what helps people being normal and efficient in work and social relationships.

And if you multiply that with a indefinite number and add that ability to the social impairment in autism, there's the possibility that this works out really positive for the person in question. I don't doubt it can turn out worse or have no particular effect on their autistic condition in some cases, but it can also turn out to be fairly positive by lessening the impact the autistic symptoms have on your life. Same goes for lying.

I think that's really positive.

I view myself as a good person and the rest of the world as in the wrong. I feel morally superior to them all.

There is no documented co-morbidity between congenital psychopathy and autism.

I am familiar with both psychopaths and aspies (arguably more so than with the NT )...they are two distinct, and different, conditions with some striking similarities.




Or to put it another way:

Question: What do you get when you cross an aspie with a psychopath?

Answer: An NT

I know several aspies who have painstakingly learned to lie and manipulate as a "coping skill". The best word I can use to decribe them is "monsters"...but they are quite distinct from psychopaths.

Okay, I got to say that personally, I can't possibly agree with that. I know autistic and inherited psychopathic traits in one person and the result isn't normalcy. It would feel a little odd to say it can't be when it's right in my face which is why I cannot agree with you on this.

Also, most definite psychopaths aren't going to be as mad as to get diagnosed as having APD/DPD (and have their life destroyed) and so I also cannot see how a lack of documented cases means there's no co-morbidity.