First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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OOOooo, now those sound like the kind of trivia that might grab a person's attention if they aren't really into neurology etc. After I posted last time I realized that your "Umm yeah" was sarcastic and you knew not to start that way.

Actually it was because I suddenly realized how easy it is for me to go overboard on my special interest. "Should I start with this little bit of neurology?" is a reasonable question, and I meant it. And then I went overboard because I got distracted by the OOH SHINY factor.

I do that too. I get really excited about cognitive development and how quirky my kids are. I liked the cognitive stuff long before I had kids, but now that I have kids of my own to observe it's really exciting. Because unusually high intelligence is part of their fascinating profiles (at least for two of them) it can easily come across as bragging that my kids are smarter than "your" kids, when in fact it's not. I don't think that high intelligence is particuarly impressive, but it is interesting to see how all their various charactaristics combine to create various behaviors. Hard work and a kind heart are far more important than brains.

The only advantage I have is that I can tell when someone's eyes glaze over and it's time to stop. Sometimes I try to step it up and see if I can't catch their interest but that usually ends worse. I'm learning too. Maybe you can ask them "Is this interesting to you?" or "Do you mind me talking about this?" etc as a way to gauge interest. They might say yes when they want to say no to avoid hurting your feelings so you might need to tell them to be honest or you WILL keep talking.

To Aspies and NT's alike...

Is there a good way to help an Aspie stay somewhat organized? Hubby owns a computer shop, and it's relatively small but he's super busy so stuff gets piled up. He is very frustrated at times because he can't even walk through to the back, and stuff is so cluttered that he can't find anything at all. His desks get filled with mail, disks, hard drives, etc but he seriously doesn't have time to clean because he's so flat out all the time. I am usually good at organizing for him, or rather, cleaning up once in a great while, but it doesn't take too long before it's a wreck again. I've offered to come in and start sorting through stuff, with the preface that I don't frustrate him by asking him where things go. I think I will go in once a week to maintain it. It's just getting to the point where customers can't walk through the customer area, and he's slowed down working wise because he has to dig through stuff. There are a fair amount of drawers and shelves that are all stuffed full so he has a place for everything, he just forgets to put things back in their place.

Is there a way I can do this for him without frustrating him more? I tend to organize things for him in the place where he left them, but in an organized fashion. That usually works well. he can't handle more than an hour of cleaning once in a great great while and an hour doesn't get ANYTHING done there. I have spent a whole DAY cleaning off his desk. But he's GOT to get it cleaned up or he's going to continue being slow. He's agreed to let me come in and help him. Now I just need to know if there's anything I can do to make it easier on him.

Be sure the "home" you give things is in the general area where he's used to them being. If a certain item is always on the floor, give it a specific home on the floor, near where it's used (unless he never keeps it there) and off the walking path. If you try to put it on a shelf, guess where he'll go look, and guess where he'll start dumping it every time he finds it on a shelf.

Make sure it's not hard to organize. Make sure there's actually a place for everything, and that that place won't just get covered up, because if he thinks he needs something on his desk lest he forget it exists, and something else on his desk because it doesn't go anywhere, and another couple of somethings he doesn't want to forget (that go on top of the other thing he doesn't want to forget, burying it), and a few more homeless items... Be sure the places you put things actually get checked.

The more obscure it is, the faster it'll get trashed. The more it goes against his inclinations, the faster it'll get trashed.

Question...what types of NT's do the Aspies among you find yourselves drawn to/identifying with, if any?

I think I am not ASD, unless you count ADHD. But it seems to happen disproportionately in the friends I pick out, that they seem to be on the spectrum somewhere.

I would love to find a way to do this. We're not all in the spectrum but not a one of us in my family is technically NT. We all five have ADHD, some with meds for it some without depending on tolerance, other medical conditions etc. Hubby is not currently treated for ADHD and is dyslexic. He can only find things if piled into great big ugly heaps and that is really hard for me to live with. I'm not the most organized and can barely keep my own stuff in place, but having 4 other people with ADHD moving stuff around...it gets pretty wild. I do my best but if I could I'd hire a professional cleaner to come and help. I'd still have to do the organizing but having someone else do some of the heavy work would free my time up. I used to have one and I plan to again but we are going through a financial transition right now and are tightening our belts until we have everything figured out. (Hubby is retiring and needs to find another job, we'll have income but greatly reduced, and I changed jobs and have summers off so no paychecks for the next two mos for me).

I'll definitely be taking notes if any of it seems to apply when people answer.

I'm kind of like that too. I've got ADHD and maybe other stuff that isn't problematic but is definitely different. I find myself drawn to Aspies, but not all of them are interested in making friends, which is hard for me. I respect their wishes just don't like it. It's not just Aspies, it's all kinds of people who are different. I find them interesting when they aren't bitter and mean. I think it's fascinating to see all the different ways people are. Part of it may be the way I was raised. My mom's sister had Downs Syndrome and she always made sure my sister and I spent time with kids with various disabilities. One of the kids in our neighborhood had maybe mild CP or AS or something. She had an odd gait and I took that to be mild CP. She was in special ed but was really smart once you got to know her, which now that I know more sounds more Aspie like. Her sister was in my sister's class and we would go over to their house and watch Batman after school very often. Their dad was the Mayor. At that time I'd never even heard of Autism or AS.

Me too. Long before I knew I was anything other than weird, I've been drawn to people who are quirky, and a lot of them have had AS traits. The most AS-like people I've known have been interested in being friends with me, because I was one of the few people weird enough for them to connect with. Most of my friends are probably NTs, so to answer the original question, the NTs I go for are smart (but not necessarily academically successful), willing to ask questions and discuss ideas about anything from pop culture to string theory, able to get enthusiastic about things, not interested in conforming, and willing to be themselves...and willing to talk to me.

I also talked to an acquaintance of mine with ADD recently who is also decidedly quirky and drawn to those with AS (to the point of thinking their strengths are better/more valuable than NT ones, in general). So, that's four people (all women, I think) with ADD who are drawn to quirky people with AS traits. I know that's not enough to draw a tenable conclusion, but I have to wonder whether there's a pattern here. I dunno if it supports the idea that ADD is part of the spectrum, but there's got to be more to the connection than a shared experience of being "weirdos" and outcasts.

Anyway, as a side note, Kiley and SoSayWeAll, I'm enjoying your posts--you have really interesting things to say.

Mosaic,

I'm enjoying your perspective as well. I've only recently heard that some people think there could be a case for people with ADHD being part of the Spectrum. It's an interesting thought not one that I have much of an opinion about (yet). It sure would make sense out of my life, but like you said that's not enough to support any kind of real movement.

I like smart people too, but thinking about my friends, they aren't all smart in the usual way. One who I especially like isn't really unusually bright at all. She can be a bit dense, but I think that's untreated ADHD and focus/organization problems (everybody thinks so). She's also extremely noble spirited and self sacraficing. I think my friends are probably all over the place IQ wise, but they all have interesting strengths and open minds. We don't always agree about things but we respect each other. I think I will seek out smart people for the interesting things they know, if they are nice. Good character has always been my first priority. People are born with whatever brain they are given. Character is more about choices. I don't even mind people who are a little cranky if they are really nice and do the right things. I've got one friend who is very gruff (I think she's probably an Aspie). She's really smart and does lots of kind things, but sometimes the way she says things sounds too blunt or rude. Since her actions are really kind I don't care about the way she talks. If her actions were blunt or rude I'd run the other way.

Rambling now.

LOL, I had to laugh...I just found out today that yet another of my online friends is an Aspie. I would never have guessed it, though. I wonder if it's because at least online, I find their behavior normal or sensible from my perspective, so it doesn't stick out to me as anything different.

I still don't think this makes a case for me being one, though...but still, it sure happens a lot!

I would say when you start try to sort into only a small number of simple but unambiguous categories and leave as much space as possible for these groups to grow into disorganized mounds and still remain distinct groups (large plastic bins are good for this). Things will still look like a horrible mess, but if the categories stay accurate you start to have to search a smaller area.

At least for me, the categories have to be linked to what task I have to do with the object. This allows the organization to become just another part of the procedure required for the repair. I know that for task A, I need to collect things from piles 2,3,7 preform steps 2-20 and throw the result into pile 15.

Your husband is probably best to decide the categories because it should be based on how he thinks of and works with objects. Not to mention, even if watching a reorganisation is unpleasant, coming back and not recognising your personal space is often worse.

If this does ever manage to stick, the one hour you do get to organize could be used to pick the largest, most searched through pile and try to find a logical why to divide it in two smaller piles.

Bin labels and when things get worse a map of where to find containers, are both good. Starting to be religious about having a new container every time I take something apart (especially electronics), and keeping everything removed inside it, has made life allot easier.

I have to keep everything exactly in the right place (I'm OCD as well), andif anything gets moved, I get upset fairly quickly. I know where everything is, but when it comes to keeping appointments and such, I have to keep a notebook handy or stick a Post-it with the info to my computer screen (where I'm guaranteed to look at it at least once a day). I'd be lost without Post-its.

E333

the brutally honest and the very strange.

why did this thread get un-stickied? it's so helpful ... now it's going to get lost in the heap ..

Yes, I hope it gets sticky again.

POST NOTE PLEASE!! ! topic

It was unstickied before, and I asked Sinsboldly to resticky it. But she is no longer a mod.

I think I know who unstickied it.

Best thing is to post every day. I will, to keep it on page one. I wish Greentea, the originator, was back.