Being an Aspie is the worst

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Yeah I was looking at them....I only noticed it finally now.

Like I said though, to quote Judd Nelson from the Breakfast Club "everyone is good at something". And I agree.

That's a very good point in that quote that everyone is good at something. I'm glad you brought that upTheDoctor82. We sometimes just have to dig to find it.

and again, as I said before, what you can do just may not be what the majority want you to do. You then have to question whether what the majority consider to be in their self-interest is in yours or not. And don't forget that what the majority consider to be in their self-interest may only be so short-term; many variables to consider here.

No, I'm saying that the lack of ability to socialize is a bad thing for people whose desires rest in the social aspect. This isn't about "coming off suave" or "desperately wanting to conform to the rest of society", this is about wanting to enjoy life. Not everyone with the same limitations as you can enjoy all the same things you do. If changing our desires were as simple as admitting that the ones we have are too difficult for us to fulfill no one would become depressed.



And if "what I totally can do" isn't enough?



That's all well and good, but it hardly does justice to your point considering that you yourself admitted to being amongst the bad judges. And out of all the bad judges you condemned only one of them you allowed a free pass, because of your bias towards a particular judge whom you believe to be "reformed" now, to be able to clearly see reality for what it is now.



Unfortunately a lot of this has to do with how little people can relate. Especially considering that not just AS, but all of mental illness affects everyone differently. I don't see it as people being jerks or too stupid to help, I see it as human empathy having its limitations and even an entire scientific discipline of professionals being perplexed as to how to effectively treat mental illness. Have you considered that people aren't helping you not because they're all dicks, but because they can't?

And I'm in complete agreement. I seriously doubt anyone's ability to be happy will ever be objectively measured based on their qualities alone. However, it's one thing to say that people with unfortunate circumstances can be happy. It's another thing entirely to say that everyone with unfortunate circumstances can be happy.

Let me ask you something: is the social aspect what is truly desired, or the perception of the social aspect? Because as I learned the social aspect doesn't even close to live up to how it's built up to be.

Also, who says you need the social aspect to enjoy life? That's basically saying "everyone else is responsible for my happiness"; if you say that, then you will never be happy, cause only you can make you happy.


When you say "And if "what I totally can do" isn't enough?"; isn't enough for whom?

About this: "That's all well and good, but it hardly does justice to your point considering that you yourself admitted to being amongst the bad judges. And out of all the bad judges you condemned only one of them you allowed a free pass, because of your bias towards a particular judge whom you believe to be "reformed" now, to be able to clearly see reality for what it is now."

I'm really confused as to what you're trying to say. I was dismissive somewhat at the time because I was under the impression they all knew something I didn't. In other words....I was lead to believe in having faith in what everyone told me over figuring out things for myself. They had an agenda, and they wanted me to follow it. They still have that agenda, this won't change.

About your point: "Unfortunately a lot of this has to do with how little people can relate. Especially considering that not just AS, but all of mental illness affects everyone differently. I don't see it as people being jerks or too stupid to help, I see it as human empathy having its limitations and even an entire scientific discipline of professionals being perplexed as to how to effectively treat mental illness. Have you considered that people aren't helping you not because they're all dicks, but because they can't?"

first of all, you're then contradicting your own argument. If they can relate so little as it is, why do you desire to attempt to relate to them so badly? You said it yourself: if they can't, they can't. Why put the energy into their failings?

In my case though, I see it as humans making a choice. The choice is to take the route of easy answers with no substance. Most of the people I looked to during my severe depression 10 years ago were family and co-workers, and a few friends. Both sides of my family--despite my being somewhat closer to one of them--are extremely shallow, childish people who want you to do things their way. My mom was in fact so desperate for them to accept her, that she let her stress over trying to fit in take her own life.

My co-workers had a "pack" mentality, and disapproved of individual thought. They also had the maturity of small children; oh, and they were all older than I was. A very shallow bunch, I assure you.

My friends have already admitted to being much weaker intellectually and morally than I am, with a need for external acceptance..one of whom happens to be a guy that "everybody likes".

People kept giving me "answers", but those answers were more on their terms, not mine. Their terms seemed very fluid, and very lacking in substance. I didn't see how I could apply those standards to my own life; in a way their standards even seemed remarkably lower than mine. Yeah, they were.

It is the social aspect, an actual bond. I'm not looking to be the life of the party, as you seem to think socializing is all about. As for what you've learned about it it means little to me as it stands in stark contrast to what I've learned about it. We could always settle this with a shouting match of "I'm right, you're wrong!", or I could simply point out the silliness of two individuals arguing about the reality of a subject neither can even realistically perceive because they each have a disability characterized primarily as a deficit in engaging in exactly what they're arguing. It's as ridiculous as two blind men arguing over the nature of colors.

And all of this is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying anyway. I'm sure I could dismiss your fascination with whatever it is you enjoy as easily as you dismiss mine, but that's besides the point. The point is that people cannot control where their desires lie. Do you honestly think people's desires are going to change simply because you see them as unrealistic, unenjoyable, or just plain fake? If I spent all day here arguing about how pointless, dull and tedious your interests are, and how unrealistic and fake your dreams are, would your desires just pull a complete 180 on themselves? Would you suddenly be fascinated with things which you never found appealing before, simply because you now "see the light" because I spieled my opinions? Or would you dismiss everything I have to say, because you have very high opinions of all the things it is you have your heart vested in?



This isn't true at all. The same argument could be made about doing the tango. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. If you keep stepping on people's feet because you don't understand what "dance" is, then of course you're only going to get unfavorable results. The same is true of socializing. It's enjoyable when both parties know how, which is why the minority of people who condemn socializing just happen to be deficient in the art.



For me, of course. I'm talking about enjoyment here. I can draw a squiggly line - it doesn't mean I'll be able to entertain and stimulate myself for hours on end by filling a notepad with squiggly lines.



Why is it that you ascribe everything with "society" to malevolence? Never honest ignorance? People don't just respond to words and actions, they respond to tone, they respond to context, and they respond to your own behavior. If your behavior gives off the vibe that you are unsure and have to look to them for signs of self-worth, then people will pick up on that and come to the same conclusion, at which point their reaction just depends upon how sympathetic they are to you.

As for what I was getting at, I was implying that you were no less of a faulty judge than everyone else in your situation. You act as though you had no opinion of yourself whatsoever, yet it's clear that you did - you just left it in the hands of those whose opinions you deemed as worthy. How would you have come to the same conclusion if it was only their own conclusions? And yet, based on situations like this you look upon such people as "having an agenda". What if it turns out that they were only responding to your own insecurities all along? That in the end they were good judges who simply assumed that the single bad judge had the right conclusion?



There is no contradiction; having a desire is not the same thing as fulfilling it. You also operate under the faulty assumption that the act of relating is about totality. It is not. Conformity itself is merely a means of appealing to common denominators because there is no one that has everything in common. People can find behaviors that others engage in sometimes silly, their favorite TV show lame, and their choice in women tasteless, but the fact that people have differences alone doesn't break bonds because differences are always to be expected. Of course what can break those bonds is the nature of those differences, but then why would you ever want to pound a square peg into a circle shaped hole anyway? People together can engage in activities and subjects in which they can relate, and gloss over everything else.

Inability to relate with entirety isn't just their failings, but our failings as human beings. The fact that the death of a person you don't know in another country wouldn't bother you the same as the death of a loved one is proof of that.



I see it as humans propping up psychological defense mechanisms. In cases where there are no answers, people may find it comfortable to provide themselves with answers that aren't answers at all, but make them feel secure. And, unfortunately, the barriers in place that keep us from full-out empathy with one another could themselves be defense mechanisms. Such is the nature of depression that it can even threaten the well-being of those who interact with depressed people. It may have more to do with not wanting to understand than failing to. Even more unfortunate is when pain is left to exceed coping mechanisms because people who seek hope may only find empty wells. My condolences to you.



In the end I believe that all humans are shallow. I don't believe in a "true" self beneath layers that you have to use to "fake" with others. I see it all as facets of a conscious mind with desires, that uses different personalities as different strategies to approaching many situations. I see even that which we even call the self as being used just like a personality for the purpose of a result through defense mechanisms such as imposing our weaknesses upon others to make us feel better about ourselves and shifting blame. I also believe that humans are simply doing the best they can - socializing has a subtle logic to it that makes it very difficult for us aspies to pick up on; subtle, but necessary for cohesion, which is why NTs can be taken aback by people who do not display an understanding of the logic. And I believe that morals are flexible, and depend more on a person's needs, their willingness to obtain them, what stands between them and their needs, and their ability to use their intellect to resolve moral dilemmas, such that people who has reservations with stealing a candy bar from a store may have no issue illegally downloading MP3s and movies.

Well, it's been quite a ride, but.... none of this has anything to do with my point that desires aren't flexible to our ability to fulfill them simply because we wish the fruit were lower-hanging. Basically I had just posted to point out the elephant in the room, but ended up getting dragged into something completely off-topic. To think this argument about the nature of socializing could've easily been avoided from not having included the word "gifts" when stating my point, heh. May or may not respond after this, don't really care any more. Especially arguments that just involve subjectivity vs. subjectivity leave me feeling exhausted pretty quick. Well, have a good one.

You forgot to mention that these people spend a lot of their time saying the same useless things to each other, stabbing each other in the backs, lying to each other and pretending to be interested in each other......and at the same time they are not even aware of how meaningless and shallow their lives are.

We are the opposite, we think deeply, we see relationships between things that most people will never see, we learn whatever we want and don't need help to do so, we develop our own unique way, and we can never be classed as one of the herd like they are.

I am glad I am not NT.

albert ainstein had aspergers and so did darwin and does bill gates. many aspies have excellent jobs in computers and many are professiors. many aspies live on their own. i do.
i'm stuck in a low paying job i hate, but i don't think it's because i have asperger but because i made mistakes in not going to college. aspies are very smart and some are geniuses. i didn't go to college because i thought i was really dumb because of my learning disability. if i only knew it was asperger maybe things would turn out differently. too late, i'm forty five and you can't get a good job at that age without experience. plus i live alone now and don't want to ask my parents for money, so i'd have to pay college tuition an my expenses as well... work many hours plus go to college, and all for nothing because i won't get a good job anyway. forget it.
aspies can get very far if they have support, if their parents build their self esteem instead of ruining it in their anger at their kids for not being like everyone else.

it's what I keep trying to tell people here, but they prefer to believe what's marketed to them.

I would never say you're stuck because you didn't go to college. You don't need to go to college to succeed. A degree simply says you can work for someone else, and that's all it says.


Actually I don't have very much support, but I push myself beyond anything and once in occasion come to the attention of those that think that they can succeed by joining forces with me.