Is aspergers existence proven scientifically?

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TechnoDog, you are clearly very passionate about this, but to be completely honest I'm having a lot of trouble actually understanding what you are saying. Particularly the part where you mentioned genocide, where did that come into it?


This part is not directed at TechnoDog, but the word autism is used to refer to a far wider range of people than it was 30 years ago, at both ends of the spectrum. Some people who were once called mentally ret*d are now called autistic, and some people who were once called just shy or weird are now called autistic. It is a very broad disorder nowadays. You may not like it but it's not going to change back, so get used to it.

The people who were once just called shy or weird still had the same problems 30 years ago, but now their problems are recognised as being related to those with 'classic autism' and are receiving better treatment. Rather than being told to "just be normal" they are given practical strategies about how to fit in and function in society.

Some people also have the idea in their head about this hypothetical aspie (maybe you think you are this person) who had a happy life before diagnosis and was functioning fine. Maybe they were a little shy, they didn't say much, but they certainly weren't mentally ill. Then the doctor with his horrible DSM book came along and started calling him sick, forcing all kinds of harmful or unnecessary treatment on him. The fact is that there is a clear requirement in the DSM stating "The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning". If the person in question didn't have any real problems functioning in society then they shouldn't be diagnosed with anything. Any doctor who acts otherwise is misusing the DSM.

Your next though might be "So if I don't fit in with everyone else I'm automatically sick? That's crap! I'm not less than anyone else, I'm just different". Many people hear a diagnosis and hear "You're wrong, the way you think and feel is wrong and if you want to get anywhere you'll have to change yourself to be more like everyone else". But it's not about NTs being right and aspies being wrong; NTs are the vast majority - they make society and its rules. As much as we would like it to, society is not about to change to suit us. It's not fair but that's the way that it is. Diagnosis and treatment should be about recognising a difference between the patient and 'most people' and teaching them strategies and methods for getting around in society, which is necessary for employment, relationships and quality of life in general. Employers and family members should understand our difficulties and attempt to help us fit in, but we have to meet them halfway.

Another common problem with Autism is that it is too broad a category, that it should be broken up into separate, smaller disorders. I think most of us can agree that that should be the end goal, but the problem is where to draw those lines. We can easily find someone very 'low functioning' and someone very 'high functioning' and say "these are clearly two separate sets of problems, they should have different names, but we can just as easily find 100 other people who fit into every functioning level, every degree of each separate symptom severity between these first two people. So where exactly do we draw the line? Do we base it on such a hard to quantify idea as functioning level? Or on whether or not there was a language delay? Or perhaps on IQ? Do we have two disorders within Autism, or three? or ten?

To quote the DSM 5 rationale: "Differentiation of autism spectrum disorder from typical development and other "nonspectrum" disorders is done reliably and with validity; while distinctions among disorders have been found to be inconsistent over time, variable across sites and often associated with severity, language level or intelligence rather than features of the disorder. Because autism is defined by a common set of behaviors, it is best represented as a single diagnostic category that is adapted to the individual’s clinical presentation by inclusion of clinical specifiers (e.g., severity, verbal abilities and others) and associated features (e.g., known genetic disorders, epilepsy, intellectual disability and others.) A single spectrum disorder is a better reflection of the state of knowledge about pathology and clinical presentation; previously, the criteria were equivalent to trying to “cleave meatloaf at the joints”."

It's when resources hit they peak level. When they is not enough you need to make the decision of what gets cut. We currently right now do not have the resources. We don't have the resources for normal stuff. We are far exceeding our income level & dipping into reserves on yearly budgets.

The resources of earth can't keep up & we seriously need to get off this path. And come up with better systems, & they need to be implemented. We don't have time for stress related illness that can be avoided.

That’s what happens at peak levels Ellingtonia, what humans will do to survive. If these people really do not have what you say they have & how people are treated against they rights, when they get sectioned. I know what happens in reality to people & these SSRI drugs & ADD drugs get thrown at people as soon as you walk into the GP these days.

You know teachers wanting them to have ADD, because they suck at been the teacher that you should not mess with. Drugs are not the answer. We already see this happen with patients been medicated up not because they need to, but to make them easier to manage.

GPS don't care about current research, they just do what the book tells them to do. They say it's not they job to do the research.



Shy should be called shy. I am a Shy guy & it is embarrassment. Also its what people tell people to do. & that is not true females ask friends on how they should act towards a guy. They tell they friends not to tell them they like them & say wait for the guy to tell you, etc. & avoid the quiet one, etc.

They is difference from anxiety & shy & true shy.

I also guess you did not read the hole of this topic though as I mentioned shy.

I do not want a label of autistic or autism for just been shy. You really do not want to screw with us.

& 1 hour confidence building things with advice of just stop caring is not what I call better treatment. How about we tell the ones who don't care to start caring.

Last edited by TechnoDog on 16 May 2012, 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

No one wants that. No doctor that is even barely competent would diagnose an autism spectrum disorder just for being shy. What I'm saying is that some (not all) of the people who would have been called merely shy or weird 30 years are now rightly recognised as being on the autism spectrum.



Advice of just stop caring? Caring about what? Were those exact words used? This sounds like an oversimplification.
And what would you call better treatment? Ignoring the problem hoping it will go away?



I'm still not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the government will start committing genocide Autistics to save money? Because that just isn't going to happen.



I really tried. Your writing has numerous grammatical errors and it is very difficult for me to make sense of them.

I give up like talking to a brick wall. Drop the autism words.

I say this, in order to have autism and/or asperger's one has to have many other issues, then just being shy or having simple anxiety. There are personality traits. Not everyone in society is outgoing and/or social.
In some terms, anxiety is okay to have because it protects one from danger. Maybe when it become overwhelming and/or problematic that is when anxiety disorders are diagnosed.
As for weirdness, That is something that "society" has coined, not real doctors. Society says we have to act a certain way, do certain behaviors and/or activities at certain life stages. Weirdness that does not involve harm to self or others should not be considered part of any diagnosis at all. Trust me if you look at pop culture and celebrities and some of the fashions, you will see them people are not considered weird. heck they are getting tons of fame and money for it.
The sad thing is there is this "over-diagnosing" of many disorders in this society, especially America. I true diagnosis should include traits and severity in ALL SYMPTOMS and/or CHARACTERISTICS of asperger's/autism, not just one or two.
Also, psychiatrist and doctors want money and will diagnose you with crap, so that they can get money, especially from insurance companies. Same with the drug companies. These doctors are paid great incentives (vacations, cars, etc) to prescribe patients with medications. However, in order for them to prescribe them and get insurance to pay for the drugs and even pay for the visits to the doctors, one must have a diagnosis.
There are many people who truly have Asperger's and/or autism. However, there are many who actually do not. I say they need more proof and testing and also to stop going after "history". Many people can outgrow their symptoms and either go up the spectrum or even no longer qualify for anything on the spectrum.
They whole system is screwed up.

Simple answer Ban the dsm from this country. We don't want to turn into what america is. Even if you look at it right now, do you notice the pattern of what UK has now turned into, turning into.

I thought altruism was meant to be caring for the well-being of others. Seems your the opposite. I also am sure he says autism people can't lie. Hmm really.

How about it means don't ask us a question if you don't want the honest answer & we will make complaints. You don't slap DSM labels on someone with "possible" or showing great well-being to want to drug 6 year old kids up. Rather than trying other ways first or means.

How about this bit of info comparing me, to someone who daydreams. I don't.

http://www.omg-facts.com/view/Facts/50280

AMEN TECHNODOG!!
You are right. That is one thing us Americans have that sucks. In America it seems that everything is considered a diagnosis. And yes, they do slap labels on kids and drug them up for money. It is so sad because they even have teachers, yes teachers responsible for educating a child getting involved in having kids drugged up. I think the DSM is messed up and I also question the 1 in 88 because that is just ridiculous to have that many kids diagnosed.

Really don't see why people did not see it was not a good idea. I think they just trusted people too much. I wonder just how much information is wrong.

& how much they checked food, vitamins, meds. How the environment effects them. I know I had loads of energy when I was a kid, but we went on adventures & play street games like hide & seek. ( but that is what a kid can be, one of 2 types, ( jump straight in, or observe & then join in ), then they switch around in secondary school I think it was then, or just before. ).

Then I was more The Quiet One.

Just a Shy Guy. Shrinking Violet.

Then Aloof.

Really don't think anyone gets the environmental impact or ignores it or says stupid things like. That’s life. No before it was not like that, better world more acceptance not less. Seriously don't think they get just how damaging it is to say these things to kids.

Seriously lost the ball to kids come first, before anything else.