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Things YOU Understand (but Don't Understand) About NTs

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TheSunAlsoRises
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26 Jun 2012, 12:39 pm

Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd writes:

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Don't NTs understand that how they truly feel is projected at the other person, regardless of what they say? There is no mistaking it, especially when the vibe is particularly "unfriendly" and they're trying to hide it with flowery words and gestures. Just because the other pretends it isn't there, doesn't mean they don't "feel" it. It often makes the other person think, they're crazy - that they're imagining things. How is that communication?


Non-Autistics understand BUT there is an expectation THAT IF you have to, you ignore certain behaviors in order to achieve your goals as well as society's. For example, President Obama is met with this duplicity( of people saying one thing BUT meaning something entirely different based on their behavior) BUT in-order to serve his constituents and move certain policies forward, he can't dwell on these glaring contradictions and let them prevent him from derailing his agenda.


TheSunAlsoRises


Understood. And that's pretty much what society's definition of "socializing" is as all are taught the same - one must pretend interest in one thing in order to acquire another. So, would you consider that "socializing"? "Communicating"? Because that very same "pretending" is the number one "rule" in the socialization people are taught. And, in certain circumstances, it is the ONLY rule.

Do you think such pretending is necessary for "survival"? Because, as one who is quite happy and surviving quite nicely, I have to say that it is not. During my own interactions with NTs who are in a "happy" state, it does not take place and success is all but guaranteed - and in much less time than is usually expected. Intelligence can even be witnessed to "sky-rocket", often beyond my own, which, by society's tests and standards, is "freakish". So, what is it, exactly, that makes the common, deception-based interaction between human beings "normal" or "superior"?


By definition( as determined by Non-Autistics), I consider it a form of non-verbal communication through body language and social cues. Personally, it's difficult for me to ignore at times. IF I could, i would probably be in a better position than I'm currently in. LoL. I see many of the things THAT you see.

This is going to sound controversial BUT(given a certain type of social mind/neurology) pretending might be necessary for the (Physical and Psychological) survival of a particular group. I liken it to thorns on a luscious red rose or the blending of a aqua-bronze salamander in it's native desert environment; it's simply a mechanism in which to protect ones self.

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androbot2084
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26 Jun 2012, 12:48 pm

Nuerotypicals use body language to control others.



Cyd
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26 Jun 2012, 1:51 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd writes:


By definition( as determined by Non-Autistics), I consider it a form of non-verbal communication through body language and social cues. Personally, it's difficult for me to ignore at times. IF I could, i would probably be in a better position than I'm currently in. LoL. I see many of the things THAT you see.

This is going to sound controversial BUT(given a certain type of social mind/neurology) pretending might be necessary for the (Physical and Psychological) survival of a particular group. I liken it to thorns on a luscious red rose or the blending of a aqua-bronze salamander in it's native desert environment; it's simply a mechanism in which to protect ones self.

TheSunAlsoRises


"Insecurity is a good thing."? I don't agree, but it is perfectly understandable why one would believe it.



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26 Jun 2012, 2:08 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Nuerotypicals use body language to control others.


I think most have some method they use to control - or to try to control others. My personal favorite is "explaining". I often "explain" in an effort to put people at ease. Doesn't work very well, as it is VERY annoying, but I still do it...perhaps I do it TO annoy! Some sort of universal payback for all of those years of BEING annoyed? ROFL!! Entirely possible!



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26 Jun 2012, 2:41 pm

again_with_this wrote:
faerie_queene87 wrote:
I had to do this

Image


I gotta say, I got a kick out of this. The irony, of course, is that the Most Interesting Man in the World is like a neurotypical x 10.


What do you mean by that?

Actually, I think that in reality a NT x 10 would more likely be the most boring person in the world :wink: :wink: :wink: Unless he/she were also the best liar in the world, that is.


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kirayng
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26 Jun 2012, 2:54 pm

Verdandi wrote:
again_with_this wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
again_with_this wrote:
You talk about innate as well as learned socializing dynamics. Is it possible to not have learned "correctly," while still understanding in theory? Is it possible some people who are "proper NTs" do come to question the "societal power dynamics" and challenge them? Or is everyone who abides by the system unable/unwilling to question any of it? Why do I question it?


Yes. Just knowing the dynamics is not always enough. I know in my case, I know a lot of social rules that I find difficult to remember, let alone apply, in social situations. Not applying it is not always simple stubbornness or contrariness.


Can you give me a few examples, Verdandi?


Okay - I know that if someone holds something out to me, that they probably want me to take it. However, I either don't notice or I ask "What are you doing?"

Another one is assuming that people know things because I know them. I remember telling my mother to take the "usual route" to my therapist when she'd never been there before. At the time I was on the edge of freaking out because while we were less than 100 feet from the office, she'd taken a different route and I was unable to work out where we were and how to get to where we needed to be.

I know that rhetorical questions are not intended to be answered, but I always answer them.

When I first met with my attorney, he asked me if I had any questions, and I said I couldn't think of any. So he said, "I will answer the most common questions, then. The first question was "how long will this take?" Despite the fact that he told me he was going to answer that question, I answered him as if he were asking me.


This is indeed very interesting. I found a work around and never realized it until I read your post. I'm a line cook and I used to really, really suck. For the reason you've described. Can you imagine cooking with other people without being able to read subtle body language cues? Well it took years for me to get to competency with this and improve my speed. I still work faster and better alone or with another Aspie (thank goodness I work with four others! :) ) My sous moves like a jaguar on the line so damn precise and fluid, he's an Aspie too but he's also been cooking for thirty years.

So I guess my point is, we can learn this too. Just like everything else and I'm so glad. :D



kirayng
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26 Jun 2012, 2:55 pm

Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd writes:


By definition( as determined by Non-Autistics), I consider it a form of non-verbal communication through body language and social cues. Personally, it's difficult for me to ignore at times. IF I could, i would probably be in a better position than I'm currently in. LoL. I see many of the things THAT you see.

This is going to sound controversial BUT(given a certain type of social mind/neurology) pretending might be necessary for the (Physical and Psychological) survival of a particular group. I liken it to thorns on a luscious red rose or the blending of a aqua-bronze salamander in it's native desert environment; it's simply a mechanism in which to protect ones self.

TheSunAlsoRises


"Insecurity is a good thing."? I don't agree, but it is perfectly understandable why one would believe it.


Insecurity is a good thing when it allows us to understand we have our weaknesses too. If we were completely secure we'd never grow, think about it.



TheSunAlsoRises
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26 Jun 2012, 3:28 pm

Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd writes:


By definition( as determined by Non-Autistics), I consider it a form of non-verbal communication through body language and social cues. Personally, it's difficult for me to ignore at times. IF I could, i would probably be in a better position than I'm currently in. LoL. I see many of the things THAT you see.

This is going to sound controversial BUT(given a certain type of social mind/neurology) pretending might be necessary for the (Physical and Psychological) survival of a particular group. I liken it to thorns on a luscious red rose or the blending of a aqua-bronze salamander in it's native desert environment; it's simply a mechanism in which to protect ones self.

TheSunAlsoRises


"Insecurity is a good thing."? I don't agree, but it is perfectly understandable why one would believe it.


I stepped away from a moment BUT let me address this. Insecurity ? Perhaps. A set of coping mechanisms more than likely which we ALL have.

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androbot2084
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26 Jun 2012, 3:36 pm

ELOQUENT EXPLANATIONS ARE VERY ANNOYING TO NEUROTYPICALS BECAUSE IT CHALLENGES THE CORE OF THEIR BELIEFS.



androbot2084
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26 Jun 2012, 3:45 pm

Anyway if you want to get along with neurotypicals tell them what they want to hear which may or may not be the truth.



TheSunAlsoRises
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26 Jun 2012, 3:51 pm

Interesting.


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androbot2084
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26 Jun 2012, 4:04 pm

I did this once. I joined a forum and argued a position that I did not believe in. I got so good at it that anyone who dared to disagree with me got banned. I knew I was living a lie and I could barely live with myself but this was not the issue. The task at hand was to gain social acceptance and for the first time in my life I found success by applying my newly found social skills.



Cyd
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26 Jun 2012, 4:23 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Cyd writes:


By definition( as determined by Non-Autistics), I consider it a form of non-verbal communication through body language and social cues. Personally, it's difficult for me to ignore at times. IF I could, i would probably be in a better position than I'm currently in. LoL. I see many of the things THAT you see.

This is going to sound controversial BUT(given a certain type of social mind/neurology) pretending might be necessary for the (Physical and Psychological) survival of a particular group. I liken it to thorns on a luscious red rose or the blending of a aqua-bronze salamander in it's native desert environment; it's simply a mechanism in which to protect ones self.

TheSunAlsoRises


"Insecurity is a good thing."? I don't agree, but it is perfectly understandable why one would believe it.


I stepped away from a moment BUT let me address this. Insecurity ? Perhaps. A set of coping mechanisms more than likely which we ALL have.

TheSunAlsoRises


"All", eh? That's interesting. I wonder what my insecurities are...



TheSunAlsoRises
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26 Jun 2012, 6:00 pm

Cyd, you have a common insecurity THAT people have in general....concerning things they fail to understand especially in regards to Non_Autistics.


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26 Jun 2012, 7:32 pm

faerie_queene87 wrote:
What do you mean by that?

Actually, I think that in reality a NT x 10 would more likely be the most boring person in the world :wink: :wink: :wink: Unless he/she were also the best liar in the world, that is.


The Most Interesting Man in the World is, among other things, a master socializer, admired and respected by men, loved by women. Socialization is as natural as breathing to him, and he does it even better than the average NT. That's why the character is so interesting.



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26 Jun 2012, 7:33 pm

I know it is a rule I have to follow, but it makes no sense:

Why you have to dress nicer to get decent service at a restaurant (and not even a very fancy place) (rather than dressing casually, but NOT messy looking). Even at a "casual" restaurant like Chili's it helps if you (as a girl) wear make up, earrings and necklace, and a nice shirt (not a tee-shirt or tank top).

Why you are a good conversationalist if you get the other person to talk, and do not actually talk yourself.

Why people if they want to do something with you, instead of saying that outright, they try to get you to say that the activity was your idea or that you really wanted to do it.


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